DS, 20 & approach to money

[RoseWei]

DS is 20 - at Uni - has 18 yr old gf who is clearly considerably better off than him. He's reluctant to work in holidays - preferring to be available to hang out with his mates - who also don't work (some can afford not to). Trouble is - we have major expenses ahead of us on his behalf - accommodation retainer/first month's rent as loan won't cover these. We've shelled out a lot - and it seems to be taken for granted.

Most times, he's a loving lad - can be enormously helpful in the house but so tardy about looking for work that it's unlikely he'll get any now (though we keep encouraging and helping). Soon, he wants a few days away with gf and can't believe that we're suggesting they youth hostel (not unless, he says, they can share a room - but that's much harder to find in a YH than dormitory spaces and, far more expensive). Now I've identified some reasonably priced hotels (she's abroad on holiday so unable to look for anything ...), and DS is b....y annoyed that I can't book till my salary is in end of the month. He's going up the wall, loud, difficult, swearing as doesn't want to loose face with gf who assumes he's booked somewhere.

Sorry if this all sounds so trivial - but I'm bugged by the thought that he feels in hock to richer people. I want him to be himself and happy that's part of a loving, if not terribly rich, family. I don't mind helping out a bit this time but on condition he continues to look for work (been half hearted to date) and understands that you can have a great time on a budget.

I'm not 100% happy about his insistence they share a room - I know what goes on (obviously) but his gf's parents haven't met DS and I'd be concerned if I were them - oh, I must sound like an old grump. I'm not! I'm just worried he doesn't understand the value of money or that you can holiday with your gf without sleeping with her (esp as they'll back at Uni in a few weeks ...). Perhaps you have to earn money before you want to protect it .... Support/thoughts would be welcome! He's left to meet a friend, gone out the back to avoid me and having to say 'Bye' .....

Sorry OP, but if you are paying for his holiday, his accomodation etc then of course he will not look for a job. And this may come as a shock to you but after he graduateswhat makes you think he will look for a job?

lady24

Uni is university - most courses are 3 years, some longer (medicine is 5 - no premed). College is for 16 - 18 year olds.

Do not pay for his holiday! You are not preparing for the world at all by paying for a luxury for him when he is twenty.

University is an excellent time to start understanding how things work such as you get a job, you earn money and then you can afford to buy things that you want to buy.

I remember finding out that if you spend all your money on beer, you don't have money for gas and then you are cold.

I was in this situation as a student- some of my Uni friends had trust funds, most came from more affluent backgrounds than me, and most didnt have to work in the holidays, so were swanning off around India/ SE Asia, funded by a token 2 week city internship with a friend of their dad's that they got #1000 a week for. Meanwhile I was doing factory work for #3 an hour (pre min wage) to pay off my overdraft and afford a week in Greece at the end of the summer. That's life.

Also, I know there's a recession, but if you look hard enough, there usually is some work around- often it's badly paid and pretty crappy agency work (chicken factory, litter picking the fence at the local landfill etc), but again, that's life. Beggars cant be choosers. If he wants to go on holiday, he's got to pull his finger out.

'The fact that he is worried about what his GF thinks is very immature'.

Well, I think immaturity is an allowable fault at that age.

You parenting task now is to get him through it. I would neither be taking time hunting for a holiday for someone who has plenty of time on their hands to do the thinking/looking. I might, in these circs, make the actual transaction (what are the odds on all his available cards being maxed out?), but I would not be paying for it without a firm agreement from him on repayments (which I would probably round down a bit, and might pay some as birthday pressie if that was coming up).

If he cannot afford the holiday he wants, then he needs to work out how to raise the money, or scale back his plans.

If he is concerned about the effect of this on his GF, he needs to be told bracingly that anyone who measures people mainly by their disposable cash (especially when young) isn't worth it, and that he has (you hope) temporarily misjudged her.

Sorry OP but he sounds like a spoilt brat,totally overindulged. It's interesting that you've chosen "Teenagers" to post about a 20 year old!

My cousin is 19 and a student and she has found it really tough as there is very little work for anyone where she lives, so to earn the money for festival tickets (she goes to loads) she has been doing all sorts of odd jobs, gardening, decorating, babysitting, washing cars, for extended family, her parents friends etc. she's also done all the shopping, cooking & cleaning for her mum, stepdad & older brother since she broke up and they all pay her £10 a week for this (ironing is extra as she hates it!).

This is pretty normal for the students in her group of mates, can your DS not do similar to raise some cash?

Oh dear. 20 years old and you are paying for him to holiday/study/keep up with the Jones!?

You sound like a lovely mum but, a pushover imho. He is not appericiating what you do for him and i think you need to realise this. He is perfectly capable of getting a job!

Iam also 20, i have 2 children, run my own home and am training to become a teacher . He needs to buck his ideas up !

University is an excellent time to start understanding how things work such as you get a job, you earn money and then you can afford to buy things that you want to buy.

I think aged 11 or so is an excellent time to discover that if you spend your money then you can't buy other things, and if you want to buy more stuff you have to do jobs to get more money (obviously at 11 the "jobs " you can do are restricted but you could offer to wash the car for a fiver, etc).

Maybe this is the problem, he is only learning now that money is a finite resource.

Rose, this is bugging me. You asked for support, and you're not really getting it. :( Though it's clear you would get lots of support here if you now told your son to forget it, and pay for his own holiday.

I can see how hard that would be for you to do, now, at this late stage. He's had 20 years of expecting this, and he sounds like he takes you for granted, and like he's going to throw a major tantrum when you first say 'no'. That is going to be difficult and unpleasant :(

But you do need to draw the line somewhere, Rose. Or you'll be paying for his holidays when he's 50!
I think the question is, do you draw the line now? I'd personally be inclined to, because of his age, his attitude and lack of appreciation, and his lack of job-hunting. I think I'd assume he's going to tantrum anyway, so I'd grit my teeth and get on with it. (It'll probably be like a toddler tantrum, only scarier! ).

But if you think it's fairer to give warning (maybe you already promised to pay for this hol?) then you could announce that this is the last time you'll pay for him during holidays/ever. You can say you've been shocked by his attitude, and from now on/Oct he'll only get uni fees/ whatever/nothing. But you have to expect he'll rage, and you'll have to stand firm.

After the storm, when he had accepted you mean it, and he has taken on some responsibility for himself, you can then be there for him, if you both want that - sympathising cos he's spent his gas money on beer, etc. - but not paying it for him!

It's a funny stage, this - making the transition from supporting our kids in everything to supporting them to grow up and 'fly away'. Some baby birds flap away happily, some create enough fuss to get themselves thrown out; but others need pushing out of the nest! Looks like maybe you've got one of those...!

I don't think the problem is that he is having a holiday paid for by his Mum it is that he is loud, difficult and swearing when he doesn't get what he wants. At 20 that is totally out of order.

It isn't that he is having a holiday paid for so much as that he expects to have everything paid for.

Yes, I agree.

I have a theory that most kids have loads a certain amount of stropping and shouting to do. Lucky parents and wise experienced parents get this over with when their kids are small and it's easy to manage. Unlucky parents have easy toddlers, or for other reasons don't find themselves saying 'no' until later on in childhood, or even early adulthood. Then, of course, the tantrums are much harder to deal with :(

You should not be paying for your son AND gf to go away on holiday together.

A huge thank you to all who have replied to my op. I've read and re-read your replies and feel supported and encouraged -

Undoubtedly, over the years, DH and I have done too much, too readily, for our kids - and in a way we are paying the price. We have a very modest income - constantly budgeting/balancing - and yet the children still seem to think that our pockets are bottomless.

With this DS, I have said that he must pay for his mini break - and have done everything I can to persuade him that he can have a good time without splashing out. His well off gf won't think any less of him - and I think he gets that.

He's done a huge amount in the house to help - house in need of a make over - while I've been at work but, sadly, continues at times (like last night) to be unspeakably rude. Still hanging out with guys who don't work, or don't need to, and, as I said before, he has a well off gf. Seems to be one step forward, a couple back.

Thanks again - felt like a doormat when I first posted. Stronger now.

Sorry to pop up again here. Feeling desperately sad. Son, after much prodding, gave me nearly half the cost of the hotel booking. Said his gf would pay her half and I'd get the money (well, he wasn't explicit but he understood that that was what I was expecting). Seemed surprised I insisted he paid for his train fare.

Came back today - and after some pleasant conversation about his time away, got into the mother of all strops about the money. When I gently asked him if I could have it (the half), he said "If you want" in such a casual way - and went into a tirade when I pointed out that this wasn't an appropriate answer (his tone said it all, really). Finally said he had it but has been secreted in his room, on laptop, saying he'll bring it down when he's finished.

Before DH got to off to work this afternoon, I talked to DH about how distressed I was at DS's ongoing attitude & about my money worries (cos of a cock up with hotel booking, we were charged triplicate putting us into OD for a while). I work non stop, as does DH, in uncertain jobs and budgeting so we keep the house and can care properly for the kids is massively important to me. DS came down, said 'What's the matter?" and I said something or other to which he replied "That's a lie" - he must have heard us.

Another tirade - f - ing his head off. We were as calm as we could be - and as DH was heading for work just now, DS said, to both of us, "You're f ...... disgusting". God, those words hurt.

DS hasn't done nearly enough to find work in these parts - won't look outside the town or go anywhere, like fast food restaurants, where he'd rather not be. And he has the looming problem of a substantial retainer on his second year accommodation - his sole response to our reminders that he must budget, irrespective of any work he gets, is "my friends spend more than I do". They're mostly quite well off it seems and he seems to have this big thing about wanting to keep up with them (inc his well off gf).

Sad, sad, sad - followed much of the advice on here and felt genuinely supported - so thanks. But now have no idea what to do with a DS who is swearing at me like a trooper and shows no signs of giving me any money he claims to have - if he doesn't have it, all he has to do is tell me.

Your son is being totally unreasonable and needs to grow the fuck up

Can you let him take over the organisation of the holiday now? Is there any way to cancel the booking so it's no longer in your name and bank a/c?

Hi Lemon - the holiday had been and gone. I'd done 99% of the organisation by the time I came on MN for some support and ended up paying, in effect, £80 of the accomm costs believing that DS's girlfriend would cough up her half.

No money from DS yet and, frankly, I'm scared to go to him as he's spend much of today, since he got back, shouting at me and f .... ing his head off. Not at all good for younger DS to hear any of this and DH is at work rightnow.

Need to let DS cool off - then let me know if he has the money or not - don't imagine I'll ever get an apology from him for his unacceptable behaviour towards me today. He seems to think he's totally in the right and that I am entirely unreasonable.

*organising of holiday.

It is horribly unfair to see others with rich parents who get money thrown at them and don't do anything to earn it. But that's life, isn't it? We all know people with more money and luxury, and it's a sign of adulthood to realise that life can be unfair a lot of the time.

You shouldn't have to leave him to cool off it is your house. My ds did a bit of this at 16/17 and in teh end I took his key and asked him to go. He got the shock of his life tbh as he is only child and has had it quite easy Is that an option? Just say it isn't working we are not singing from teh same hymn sheet here

Stay strong and ask again. He needs to get the message that he is an adult now and doing adult things so he needs to step up to the mark. You are not in the wrong here so don't let him bully you, if he gets away with it again this time he'll continue to live this lifestyle and expect you and DH to fund it.

Oops, didn't see he'd got back

I think he's being very immature and his behaviour towards you is disgusting.

Would taking a 'tough love' approach, cutting him off financially and making him do everything himself work?

I don't really understand why you were doing the booking in the first place. Surely your son has a bank card and can operate a computer? If I were you I would cancel the booking completely and refund him, if that is possible, or failing that state that unless you receive the full amount by the end of the week, you will be going there yourself or sending someone more deserving.

I really think you and your husband should tell your son that as an adult, he has no right to live in your home unless you say he can - and that means being respectful and pleasant. If he won't do that, he can leave. AND MEAN IT. He may be helpful around the house, but as a 20 year old man living rent free so he bloody well should be. Don't feel that this means you have to tolerate poor behaviour. You don't.

Time to let him deal with the consequences of all his actions. You will be doing him a favour in the long run.

Ps your paying for his accommodation etc is also not his right and you should make that clear too. If he wants your money and to live in your home he needs to treat you with respect. Do you believe that?

Seriously you need to put a stop to it otherwise he will carry this sense of entitlement into other relationships. Work/partners/ etc That is why I was hard with ds

Thanks -
the deed is done- I was far too weak (was, frankly, pestered to death) over the mini break - he is back and no sign of his gf's share of the costs which I paid for.

Feeling incredibly put upon and desperately sad as we've had a strong and loving relationship - something has, very sadly, changed for now.

You're all dead right - the 'sense of entitlement' to which NH refers is something that would be utterly destructive to his future and plainly wrong.

I would go up and ask for the much needed money again - but I'm scared I'll get another tirade - his language was foul.

DO NOT be scared of him. Go up say come down I want to talk no raised voices and just tell him. We told ds we were disappointed that always had more effect