You are a good mother but you are not a nice person

[itsspringtimenow]

Namechanged, regular poster. My DS is now 17. For years he has rarely said much to me, and when he has done it has often been rude. This has got worse in recent years which I thought might be worse than the usual teen stuff. I have asked him several times over the years if there is anything I have done to cause this, and been told either it doesn't matter or nothing. Last week after another episode of utter contempt things came to a head and I realised something had to give or we would never have an reasonable relationship in the future.

We had the talk this afternoon. He said I had been nasty, talked to him badly, over critical, and I was a good mother but not a nice person. He then said he felt like an inconvenience when he was growing up. He is right in that I was critical didn't always listen to him, took things out on him, and if I am honest I sometimes felt completely overwhelmed and irritated by having a child. My poor DS has obviously felt this strongly to say it.

As background, I have been a single parent from just before his birth, had a professional job I hated but which provided a steady income for us, have never received any financial or otherwise support from his father who left for another country to avoid 'responsibility' (his words). I lived with a partner from when DS was 2 until 7 who I thought was a good Dad, he was abusive (light) to me and I was severely depressed for years. My depression was not caused by this, but was exacerbated by it. I finally got him to leave, but then went through a series of bad life events, bereavement of my father, breast cancer (fine now), bullied at work for 2 years (yes, it happens to strong people too). I stopped working 2 years ago and apart from my relationship with my poor DS, life is fine.

I think I have abusive traits. I think I have been emotionally abusive in the past (laying many of my issues onto past partners), and only realised this a few years ago. MN has helped me to see a lot of patterns and I think my DM has narc traits that I have picked up as I had a very emotionless childhood. I am afraid I have done the same thing to my DS. He is upstairs crying, I can't comfort him. I am here wondering how the hell to could do this to my child.

Before you beat yourself up too severely, remember that many 17 year-olds think their parents are a irrelevant/nasty/critical/boring/lame/embarassing etc. You've been there for him since birth, unlike his father. You've struggled with various life events and illnesses. If you genuinely think you've cocked up, all you can do is apologise and ask how you can take things forward more positively. But do remind him that nobody's perfect.

I think if a 17 year old says that you are a good mother but not a nice person, you are doing very well actually.

And what Cogito says.

I couldnt work out from your post if you have said sorry to him about the things and times you know that you didnt do quite right.
It is great you have had the talk.And it probably is a bit of a release for him.He may not be in the right frame of mind to do much more talking tonight,but if you havent said sorry,it might be helpful for him to hear that today.
Tomorrow is another day,and maybe you could show him what you have written on here, as I think you have written the post well.

Could you go for family therapy together?

As the daughter of a mother who treated me like an inconvenience I can say hand on heart that if she arrived on my doorstep tomorrow and said "Cailin I'm sorry, I was sometimes very wrong in the way I treated you, but I am willing to change and I do really love you," I would completely forgive her, wholeheartedly. All a child really wants is their mother's love. You love your son, you just haven't done a good job of showing it at times. Fair enough, your mistake, but it's not irreparable. Don't leave him upstairs crying, go up to him, hold him, and say sorry. When he's calmer sit down with him and ask about the things he wants to change. Listen. And try to change. It will be a slow process, but you will get there. Be very very thankful that he felt able to say all this to you because you have a chance to turn things around and that is a great privilege.

He does sound an ungrateful little bugger... Gives you the silent/rude treatment for years, treats you with 'utter contempt', and then accuses you of being the nasty one? If there is a history of emotional blackmail in the family I'd say he was learning fast.

It sounds like a positive thing that he has been able to talk to you about this now. I wish I'd had the confidence to do the same with my own mother at that age. You sound regretful - if you are sorry and can admit fault and want to change; tell him that, and make an effort to do so. My own mother has made a conscious effort with me over the past few years. I know that she's essentially a very selfish person and will always criticise, think negatively and put herself first but all the while she makes an effort I will too. Hope you sort things out. And family therapy sounds like a good idea

Its not too late. You say you can't comfort him. In actual fact you have to comfort him. I feel this was about my mum. She did alot for us and suffered badly with depression. However everything she did do was a tool for blackmail and we followed her from one disaster to another. I think this is a turning point. He has spoken to you, if you don't comfort him you are confirming his feelings.

Cailin has said it much better than I could have. My mother was far from perfect when I was growing up but she has spoken of her regret and wishes she had behaved differently but this does apply "I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better"

The fact that your son spoke to you shows all hope it's lost, do apologise, offer him counselling and go to counselling yourself. You show self awareness and willingness to accept responsibility, that's all you can do at this stage.

I also think that time is on your side, it's a good age and much better that it's dealt with before he leaves for Uni.

Do hold him and say sorry - not much else is needed now to start the healing process.

Thanks for your replies and advice. I said sorry at the time, and I have told him that I could have done it a lot better, made a lot of mistakes and can see that instead of protecting him from harm I ended up hurting him anyway. My DM has always denied things that happened and I couldn't do that to him.

I left him for 5 minutes while and then went to see if he was ok. He came downstairs a short time ago and I said again I was very sorry for all of the mistakes I made, told him again what a wonderful young man he is. I did ask about counselling, either together or for him and me separately and he doesn't want to go. I also asked him to see if he could forgive me for some things as that would actually make his life easier.

The comments he has made are not about me now, they are his assessment of how he grew up. Yes he is a selfish teen but this goes deeper, he has had a lot of problems with self esteem since he was about 8 and at the time I thought it was his step Dad stopping contact after he met someone else (before that my DS would still see him regularly. DS went to pieces at the time, the counsellor said she couldn't help him.

He usually pushes me away if I try to hold him. I did try.

We live almost separately under one roof. He does not want to eat anything but a very restricted diet. For a long time I cooked two meals. Not a huge deal then as I would batch cook and freeze his. Then he refused to eat anything frozen as it 'tasted bad', and in the last year anything that has cooled in the fridge 'tastes bad'. It doesn't of course and this is him getting back at me but it does mean that on a practical level we eat separately (he would just sit there with the food in front of him then go get something else from the fridge).

I am scared I have brought him up to be abusive himself, he has the tools. I don't know where my boundaries should be with him anymore.

Sorry, I meant to say he will not let me cuddle him or comfort him physically, not that I don't want to. I hugged him anyway until he wriggled away, said I was here for him.

He obviously cares about you enough to have this difficult conversation - he could have just cut you out. He is still a child in many respects and still needs a Mum. It is not too late to mend some fences and to be the Mum he needs. This could be the best thing that has happened to both of you in a long time. If you both promise each other to keep talking in such an honest way then hopefully you'll look back in a year or two and see this as a turning point. I wish you both well. You've shown huge courage in facing up to what he has said and you have my total respect for that.

By the way. I had a very difficult relationship with my Mum growing up and would still hate to be cuddled by her, but I love her, she is incredibly important to me and she is the best granny in the world.

I'm really not sure what to do, nothing worse than being huged when you don't want it - apart from silently wanting one and having it confirmed in your head that the other person doesn't care. I can't read my child's needs, that isn't normal.

You know, people are trying to be kind by saying that he's just being an ungrateful teenager, and ( I have teens) they do tend to be self centred, and overdramatic and the rest.
But you think you'd like to do things differently, and that's worth listening to. If it were me, I'd start by working on what you want to change, like being more loving, happier, more open and available for yourself because it's a nicer way to be and life's too short not to be, and tell your ds that you know you can't go back and change the past, but you've reallly heard him and you want to do better now. And that you're doing it for yourself, and you're not asking anything of him in return.
And stop judging yourself. You did your best, with what you had then. Tomorrow is another day.

I really, really do sympathise (I have brought up 4 on my own - and, yes, they have all had their 'issues' with their upbringing).

But I think you are letting him get away with too much. He doesn't really want cuddling at his age (he may need it but that's another story) - what he needs is for you to listen to him, and have 'adult' conversations with hm. You wouldn't let a friend get away wit saying that sort of stuff to you (would you?) - so why let him.

You have apologised for past failings (as have I) - so let that be an end to it. He can't carry on using it as a stick to beat you with. Tell him, that you have had enough, you have apologised, and what more does he want you to do?

You know - I'm suer he really does love you - 17 is a difficult age. Just listen to him..... and listen......and listen. Don't be too judgemental - just 'suggest' things. From my experience - he will think they are his own ideas!

For what it's worth - I have a wonderful relationship with all 4 of mine - now aged from early 30s to early 20s.

What do you mean when you say "I can't read my child's needs"? What does "reading his needs" entail?

What you have both done today is actually great.
Your son has told you how he feels
You have taken this on board and not dismissed it
This really is so much more than many of us ever achieve in the mother child relationship.

If your son feels that you have not been the mother he needed you to be then if you feel able to you could apologise for this. Ask your son how he would like things to be moving forward and share your own thoughts about this. You have already told him how much you love him - ask him what it is that actually makes him feel loved.

Perhaps your son can cook for the 2 of you sometimes?

It sounds like you have had a pretty shit time of things but that you have a high level of self awareness and a willingness to change - counselling would potentially help you hugely if you are at this stage imo.

I would be hugely optimistic about the future of this relationship

Cailin I hear that mothers just know when their child is troubled. I really don't know how he is feeling or what he needs.

Most of you suggest I ask him what he wants to happen. I will do this and also ask what would make him feel loved. The message I'm getting here on MN is that this is possibly an opportunity to make good and that healing will take time.

I don't think what you've heard is correct itsspring. IMO most parents are able to tell a limited amount about their children and it gets harder and harder to know what's going on with a child as they get older. When they're young their needs are pretty simple - most bad moods will be down to hunger, tiredness or not getting a toy/food they want. As they get older they're going to school, seeing different friends, going through puberty etc so then the only way to know what they're feeling is to talk to them and more importantly to listen. I would be very dubious of any parent that said they know exactly what's going on with a child over the age 7 without having to ask.

Cailindana - Spot on!

I think it sounds like he's heading for an eating disorder.

Cailin that's interesting, I've never really known what goes on in families - mine was only my parents, no other living relatives. Now its DS and my DM. The listening thing is something I should focus on, DS has said in the past I interrupt and gives up trying to tell me something.

OP you have a lot of self awareness - if you listen to your ds without interrupting, you can still say stuff that shows you are listening/paying attention - ie "I hear you" or "I see" or anything that quickly summarises what has been said and echoes it back without adding in any of your own thoughts. I usually thank my dd for sharing and telling me how she feels, even though she may be saying some negative things about me and even if I feel they are unfair - it is just valuable for me to hear how she feels and how she sees things. Try to stay very calm when listening and not to get too emotional because this will get in the way of understanding what your ds is really saying to you.