Downwardly mobile teen?

[flow4]

I wonder whether anyone else has noticed this phenomenon... I find it really quite odd... I suppose it'd even be interesting if I were a sociologist rather than a mother...

I'm solidly 'middle class': university educated, working in a professional job; my house is full of books and I don't watch much TV; my leisure activities - tho' limited by being a single parent with a part-time income - are things like dinner with friends, films and occasionally the theatre, a bit of swimming; we haven't been abroad for a couple of years, but we have weeks and weekends away in places like Wales and the Yorkshire coast...

My younger son (12) does what you'd expect a son in such a family to do: he's successful at school and pleasant to talk to; he's a bit of a geek, but a sociable one; he goes to science club and archery; he can play a bit of piano and he's an impressive film buff (even beginning to know about French cinema!); he whittles and draws, and though he's a whiz on a computer, he can entertain himself happily without screens...

My teenage son (17), on the other hand, wants nothing to do with any of this. Like most teens, he thinks he's been born into the wrong family... He spends his time in bed or on the sofa, watching TV or playing video games, or hanging around on street corners, or a nearby housing estate, or elsewhere, Doing Nothing with other teenagers (mostly boys). He does no organised activity, and refuses to join in with any 'family' trips or activities. He's bright but not interested in studying, so he obviously underachieves - and he doesn't have any ideas about what else to do either. Many of his 'mates' have been excluded from school, or have left it without finding anything else to do. They don't work, and nor does my son (tho' he has done the occasional bit of cash-in-hand casual work). He smokes dope and takes M-Cat at (I think) weekends. He has no plans and no aspirations.

He expresses views and acts in ways he knows I find intolerable: he has stolen money from me, and behaved badly and violently enough that I have called the police on him on three occasions ("what sort of mum calls the police on her own son?"); he won't do chores at home ("that's what mums do"); he won't consider volunteering ("I don't even want to work, so why would I work for free?)... (It's going to be a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng summer :( )

I'm not a pushy parent (perhaps I should have been more hard-line) and obviously many kids are inclined to reject their upbringing and their parents' values... But it feels like he is choosing a life that won't amount to much, and it's very hard to watch and live with...

I don't know if this cultural reference will mean anything to others, but I often feel like I live an 'Archers life' somewhere like Ambridge, and he lives a 'Shameless' life somewhere like the Chatsworth Estate.

There's a lot of talk about giving young people opportunities for better 'social mobility', but I'm pretty sure The Powers That Be intend this to support kids to move upwards, not downwards! Does anyone else have a child who seems determined to be 'downwardly mobile'... Or (I live in hope) one who's been through that stage and come out the other side?!

I really feel for you. I sometimes wonder about my choice of parenting style too - fairly strict until the last few months when I've let DD (15)have much more choice and taken the compromise-wherever-possible line. Unlike her geeky dad and me, she's completely uninterested in anything REMOTELY educational or academic. In spite of many of her friends being very studious she did hardly any work for her recent exams (scottish equivalent of GCSE's).
And I can NOT persaude her to stop texting her BF half to death (I think he's about to dump her:( ).
The only thing I can think is that she's like her very stubborn father (and his entire family, for that matter);).
Sorry for not being much help.......

It sounds like he needs a massive reality check. I'm tempted here to just go with the 'kick him out' approach.

it sounds like you bend over backwards to accomodate him - where's he getting drug money?

if he steals from you what was the consequence of that?

Yes, always call the police - why should you be abused in your own home.
Stop giving him money and keep a very close check on your purse
Don't choose to live with him - or at least ask yourself the question every day - do I choose to live with this?
Stop doing stuff for him

In short I do not think you should be abused in your own home - in fact I wonder if the reason you allow this to happen is because you feel guilty? or in some way you blame yourself for how he is turning out?

I can only say it's not your fault - and you are doing him no favours by allowing him to guilt trip you or blame you.

{{{{hugs}}}}

We had this with DD1 and I agree its very odd. The lowest point was when she was 16 and wanted to move out and live with some awful boyfriend and friends on a sink estate in the next town. We actually refused to let her go (even though she was old enough to go of her own accord) and the relationship fizzled out. She spent the next two years being irresistibly drawn to anyone who had dropped out of sixth form and spent their time doing nothing. Some of the people she hung around with in those two years were awful and we had to ban them from coming anywhere near the house because DD2 was terrified of them. I wasn't too keen on having a drive full of teenagers yelling about how f**king massive our house was either. We also had a very embarrassing incident when my neighbour's elderly mother was visiting and some of these "friends" vandalised her car.

Somehow after lots of drama and shouting DD1 passed her A levels and went away to university and then she finally grew up. She still at almost 21 has a tendency to be an inverted snob but she loves her course and works hard and has a hundred more opportunities open to her.

Good to know there's some hope then webwiz! :)
What's it all about, do you think? Anyone got any theories why kids with lots of advantages would want to piss 'em all away?

I really don't know why she behaved like that flow4 and I am a sociologist!

Hahahahahahaha! Thank you, webwiz... Then I will stop fretting that I can't work it out!

No advice for you, but watching your thread with interest

I have a dd who has had every chance, got all the right genes, all the right circumstances, all the best opportunities

She is currently pissing away her GCSE's and seems rather taken with her boyfriend's lifestyle which appears to consist solely of staying up all night to watch dvd's and sleeping all day.

My niece has been like this, she is from a married home, with older sibling at uni, 2 cars, foreign holidays etc etc

ALL her friends are single parented, unemplyed, abused, unwanted, neglected.... some are all 5 ... my SIL has been in the school over and over and the head says it's like she hasn't got anything in common with her cohorts and so misbehaves to fit it.

Well, he's done cash in hand work before so surely must see the value in working and earning?
Do you give him any money? I would suggest not giving him money at all and being incredibly careful about leaving your own money/debit cards around.

I think this is the premise behind 'Young, Dumb and Living off Mum'.

here

It seems that all the young people on this program have loving and hard working parents, and are fecking lazy, selfish feckers the lot of them.

I have a 12 year old who is shaping up as good material for the 2016 series.

But seriously - it makes you want to weep, especially when you've lived in a developing country, as I have, and seen how incredibly hard working, mature and thoughtful so many young people are who come from families who are really struggling. I don't know what we're doing wrong in the West but I wish it wasn't this way. It's so sad and wasteful for everyone. Life is too short to waste your youth doing mundane and idiotic things, and then be forced to spend the next 40 years in a shit and boring job because you were a dunderhead as a teenager.

Hi it's me again! I've no answers but will watch this thread to see what others say. I think peer pressure matters far more than any values that we have tried to bring them up with. Since DD has been in care, her language is awful and she has started dropping all her consonants etc. She has started smoking roll ups , hopefully just tobacco. I think it's her way of trying to fit in, and I try not to react, but it still really grates. The only thing that gives me hope is that she's a closet radio 4 listener ( she didn't get that from me!)

So he's not the only one then

Saffy, he does know the benefits of working, at least in theory. As well as the casual work he's had recently, he did a 2 week full-time work placement a couple of years ago, and frankly has never been happier. His placement supervisor said he was "really hard working and mature"... But then he got back to school and got too used to being bored, lazy and unchallenged, and seems to have forgotten how to be anything else...

I haven't given him any money, except for jobs (beyond normal day-to-day chores, since about October.

Btw, it's not just about behaviour, either... His choice of clothes is tracksuit bottoms and anything with a logo; he says books are 'for losers'; and he told me last week that if i was so jealous of his abundant leisure/free time and was too 'tight' to give him cash when he wanted it, I should just give up work and "the state would give me loads of money"

Oh yes we had the giant hooped earrings what was that all about
Funnily enough DD1 had a saturday job that she loved and she was always keen to do extra hours. She used to say x doesn't need to study so why do I? Er because they got thrown off their course and you are still on yours by the skin of your teeth.

Ah now, my son dealt with 'studying' in a clever bloody annoying interesting way...

After gaining 5 GCSEs without any revision last year, he opted for a Level 1 vocational course this year, rather than A levels, because it was practical. And since GCSEs are themselves level 2 qualifications, it seemed pretty clear to me that the new course wasn't going to challenge him. Of course he took my advice and transferred to a more suitable course totally ignored me.

He then let his attendance drop to under 30% - quite an achievement since 'full time' was only 3 days/wk. Finally, to prove to everyone he was right that he didn't actually need to go in any more than a day every now and again he gained a 'merit' in his final qualification, with his lowest mark on any individual assessment being 85%.

I conclude that the course did not challenge him enough and he needs to pull his socks up. He concludes he can get away with dossing and still 'succeed'.

I think you are both mixing up "downwardly mobile" with behaving badly.

It may be that the kind of lifestyle and aspirations your family has does not suit him and he needs to find his own path. That is fine. My db went to a vocational college and then became a trawlerman while his siblings were getting their degrees- it has worked out very well for him. You can't have a society where everybody can only move upwards; some people have to either stay at a lower scale or move down if the jobs are to be done.

But stealing money and taking drugs and expecting to be waited on has nothing to do with being downwardly mobile; that could be done in a very posh way by a rich banker and still be appalling behaviour.

You need to untangle these two: come down like a ton of bricks on bad behaviour, but always make it clear that you accept him for the person he can be minus the bad behaviour (rather than for the son you thought you'd have)- that changing his ways won't mean you suddenly expect him to become like the rest of the family in his tastes and aspirations: just that you expect him to sort himself out so he is not a drag on other people.

My ds at 11 looks as if he may well be downwardly mobile, in terms of education, likely job, interests etc. Like my brother, he feels more comfortable in a different setting. I want him to be very clear about the fact that this on its own is fine, but does not alter his responsibilities towards other people in any way. I will not be disappointed in him as long as he behaves like a decent person. But that is the bottom line.

Actually I do think that aspiring to be a NEET or living a lifestyle that would feature you on Jeremy Kyle is downwardly mobile.

I'm happy with any educational pathway or career choice for my DCs but what the OP is talking about is a rejection of all the values DCs have been brought up with.

That certainly isn't the same as e.g. becoming a mechanic when everyone else in the family goes to university. I would see that as just choosing something you are good at and that interests you.

aaaaahhhhh. I was that teen, very MC upbringing, no telly, played 3 instruments etc etc. I got to 13 and rebelled in quite a spectacular way. Got one E at A Level.

But then grew up, got a job, qualified as a solicitor while working and now live a lovely MC lifestyle as though nothing had happened! Don't dispair too much, provided the support is there your DS will no doubt be fine. I think it's when the support isn't there that things can go badly wrong.

cory, that is a great post

I agree with cory

I always agree with cory

Hmm, cory, your pep talk sounds like it was intended for someone other than me or webwiz... Maybe yourself?

I think most parents with kids in this situation are quite clear about 'bad behaviour' (hence calling the police for violence, withdrawing money and services, etc.)... But you can't, and I wouldn't want to, punish other behaviour - like wearing trackies for everything, scorning books and 'dossing' - however bizarre I find such things personally.

You seem to suggest that if your child isn't actually actively behaving badly, then you support whatever they do. But there isn't a simple split between 'bad behaviour' and 'being a decent person'. Many teenagers inhabit exactly that 'twilight' territory, where they are not behaving badly, but not contributing positively either. I see it as my job to support my son to be 'the best he can be', not just to be.

Lots of kids' choices are symbolic - about their image and (often temporary) social identity rather than real aspirations or choices. And it's interesting - and irritating! - to watch kids picking an image and lifestyle that seems to deliberately reject values like 'being useful' and 'doing your best'. :)

This is a fascinating post. My heart goes out to Flow4 as I have 2 older teens and know how hard they can be
It's all the references to perceived 'middle classness' that are intriguing, I didn't realise that this stereotyping was alive and kicking still. Yes, kids generally do better with a stable and better financial background (this is an observation by the way and no criticism to any posters on here) but surely, consistency of attention, making sure they know they are loved and support are more beneficial to a child?
Just saying

Absolutely, supers, I have been fascinated to discover a vein of snobbery in me (there is no other word) that I did not know I had! The bottom line for me tho, just to reiterate, has nothing to do with job choice or university education: any occupation would be ok by me, but none is not. Rather, my concern is about what I see as core values, particularly 'be useful' and 'respect yourself and others'. As I see it, my conflict with my son, when it arises, is all rooted in my perception - or my fear - that he is rejecting these values; his seem to be 'think of myself first and foremost' and 'do as little as possible'... The clothes and laziness and everything else are just symbols or symptoms of this.

Flow4, the traits of selfishness and getting by with little effort are very common with teenagers, I can remember feeling that way myself in fact!
I guess this is where outside I influences can help. Does your son have a relationship with his father?

No supers, I definitely feel the lack of any 'outside influences' in his life, and I think he does too, though he won't admit it. His dad moved abroad about 5 years ago (specifically to avoid being made to pay any child maintenance :( ), he has no other relatives involved in his life, he has at the moment 'opted out' of our family-and-friends activities, and even college is now finished til September, so he has no adult influences in his life apart from me. I won't bore you with a list of all the things and people I've tried to get him engaged with, but none of them have come to anything, except a casual bit of odd-job work (an hour or two a fortnight) for a friend-of-a-friend.

I have said to my son that I think he's at the stage of his life where he's learning to be a decent adult/man, and it's impossible to learn this from teenage boys... It does seem like a problem to me... There seems to me to be a whole sub-section of this generation of kids (it seems like boys especially to me, but maybe that's just cos boys are what I have) growing up without much adult influence outside the home. :( It's natural for kids to break away from their parents, but it's a problem when there's no-where or no-one positive to break away to...