Need some words of wisdom from mums of 12 year olds. A bit long - sorry

[saltire]

I don't ever post here, as i don't have teenagers. I am posting this on behalf of a friend, who does, and i'm hoping one of you lovely parents of 12 year olds can offer some words of wisdom for me to pass on to her.

My friend, X , has a 12 year old girl and two more Ds age 3 and 18months. I went round last night to find my friend on the stairs, in tears with a big red mark on her cheek. Her 12 yo had been asked to sit with the younger Ds(who was in the bath) while X went to get her pyjamas (having alredy asked 12yo to do it and been told to F* off). 12 yo had gone into her bderoom instead and left 18mth in bath on her own. When X came back, she told off 12yo and told her she was
A) Grounded for teh weekend
B) No pocket money
C) No playstation.

12yo had then slapped her mother, and called her a Fing W*e, a Fing C**t, etc etc.

This is the latest in what seems to be a battle of the wills between the two of them. To say it is embarrasing to go in the house is an understatement, the atmosphere is terrible. If X asks 12yo to do anything, even something as simple as, "Ds1, can you bring your dirty washing downstairs please so i can do it" is met with resistance, the child went to school for a week wearing filthy clothes because they hadn't been brought downstairs, but she couldn't find them either, becasue if shes asked to tidy her room, she stuffs everything into a sleepin bag and puts it in her cupboard. She has twice told the school that her mum wouldn't give her any dinner moneyor packed lunch, and X has had calls from the school asking why, she told the school that her mum wouldn't wash her clothes (see above) and she won't do her homework, and tells the school her mum ripped it up.
She constantly calls her mum a F*ing bitch, or worse. She does nothing at all to help. If X asks her to stay in the living room, then she will, but she will hit the little ones, or hid their toys, if they are playing with something she will take it off them, They then cry, X comes through and then the shouting starts.
There is a husband who is much use a choclate teapot. He stays in bed till gone 1 every weekend ( X is up every single day at 4.45 with her youngest, and she works all day as well).

I think the 12yo needs to be in her own room, as she shares with the 3 yo. The house is like mine, 3 bedrooms, the third one is tiny, only has room for 1 bed and a unit, but X's hubby won't let her move room.
I'm could go on and on with this, but i think you get the general gist.
I really don't know what to say to my friend, i don't have teenagers, and i asked my mum if i had been as bad as that and she said no.
The 12yo has now started being rude to me, and at the minute i ignore it, but i feel that i will need to say something to her soon.
Any suggestions, even recommending a book would be very much appreciated.

I have a 12 yo and a 14 yo and I've had a fair few problems with the eldest over the last year or two. However, it does sound as if your friend's dd's behaviour is pretty extreme.

I'm always recommending this book - it's called "Get Out of My Life (but first take me and Alex into town)". It is a realistic, useful book about teenagers - why they are as they are, and how best to cope with them. I have found it enormously helpful with my own dd.

It sounds as if there are issues in your friend's family that need addressing - her husband really needs to pull his finger out for a start! And I agree with you that the 12 yo should have her own room - I can't see any reason why they don't give her the tiny bedroom and the 3yo and 18 mo could share. That would reduce some of the conflict I am sure.

I have a 12yr oldd dd too and our disagreements are always her bedroom too. In fact she's there right now, having had no tv all week and it will continue next week unless it's tidy. I've helped lots, we've flung stuff out, emptied drawers in ds's room for her, but 2 days later it's back to the same state. She's nothing like your friend's dd behaviour wise but it is an issue.

Don't know the book that spacedonkey mentioned, but I've been reading one called Queen Bees and Wannabees which has been useful. I know I hated tidying my room and couldn't understand why my mum kept going on about it( now I do!!!)

I have a friend whos DD was 11 when her DD2 was born, she haD DD3 2yrs later.

Firstly, whilst your friends DDs behaviour is unacceptable, she is still a child and is probably feeling a bit pushed out since the other kids arrived. Being shouted at for not looking after the other kids properly is bound to cause upset imo.

OK, at 12 she should help out, but if something had have happened to the baby it would not have been her fault.

She definately needs her own room.

How about she 'earns' her pocket money each week. Say, so much for bringing washing down, so much for washing dishes etc..

Your friend sounds as though she is under extreme pressure at the moment and although very difficult, I think she should probably stop shouting as much as I imagine she is.

Has she sat down and asked her DD what bothers her, what would she like to be different? Maybe she could be involved in a plan to get things back on track again. I am sure that DD doesnt enjoy being part of all this madness as much as anyone else.

Her DH needs to grow up. She needs his full support before any plan to turn her behaviour around is going to work.

I must admit, my dh and i have talked about it a lot with each other, and both of us have said that we think she does shout too much, sometimes just ignoring her would help.
I know that the big age gap wasn't planned, it just didn't happen quickly, then with the 3rd child she didn't even know she was pregnant until she was 26 weeks!!

Friend X last year had a discussion with the teacher and they got a couple of things sorted out, but it didn't last long.

Also, Dh and i have offered to take the 2 youngest for a few hours at weekend so that X, her Dh and 12yo can go off and do something. They went to the cinema one weekend, but it all ended in tears because 12yo wanted to see a 15 film, and they wouldn't let her, they took her to Harry Potter instead.

madmarchare, you have hit the nail on the head as far as X Dh is concerned. He works nights every other week, and on those weeks he gets in from work any time between midnight and 3am. he stays downstairs till about 5, goes to bed and then picks the kids up at 12 from CM. Between 12 noon and her getting home at 4.15 he does nothing. She comes in, takes the washing out the machine, puts another load in, washes the breakfast, and lunch dishes, then starts the dinner!
I think i'd have been at relate by now

I have a 12 year old dd - the youngest, she has two older brothers. I've read the book spacedonkey recommends and it is well worth a look.

Agree with regards to having her own space. Here the boys share and dd has the box room - it is tiny but beggars can't be choosers! Having to share a room has been an issue with the boys.

Your friend's dd's behaviour sounds pretty extreme actually ( for a pre-teen ) and I think you're right to worry as if it's not checked now it isn't going to get any better later on. She sounds pretty hormonal & mixed up - wanting to be treated more like a grown up but then hiding toys which is childish.

If it were me I'd;

Give dh a kick up the butt and get him involved a lot more - especially with the little ones as the older one needs more attention I think.

Talk to school to see what's happening there. How happy is she? What her work like? And her friends?

Where is that language coming from BTW -mine aren't angels but that sort of language in the house is a no - no. And I wouldn't ignore it either if it was directed at me - tell her in no uncertain terms that it's not acceptable. Someone needs too, I tell my boys' friends if they swear in my home they'll be out.

Personally I don't go overboard on tidy rooms - it's their space and if they want to live like that then it's up to them, there is other more important stuff to fight over...although I can see it's a problem when she shares a room.

Some talking needs to be done on both sides - she's obviously really unhappy. Asking her to help out with the little ones is perfectly reasonable but she probably needs to see what's in it for her (there has to be something if you're a teenager ) even if it's just an extension on bed-time, a way of earning some pocket money or just a bit of one-to-one with mum.

I think Custy would give good advice on this.

Me too Tamba lol!

At 12 girls seem to move between being little angels and little devils!

I suppose all we can aim for is getting more angel.

I know shouting doesn't help the situation, but we're human too, and sometimes I know I can't help it!

One thing in the 'Get out of my life' book I found interesting, was the thought that you state what you expect, but don't get into a discussion about it - just make sure the child does as they are told. Easier said that done sometimes.

i have a Ds of 13, i had his baby sister when he was 11. i think that this girl definately needs her own bedroom, i think it especially important for a teenage girl, they are naturally private about things and need their own space.
obviously the behaviour is unacceptable and needs to be punished, but it does sound to me like she is very unhappy about something.
maybe they could strike some sort of deal, if she gets the small room, to look after it properly, washing down on certain days etc?

I went to school with the author of that book - must read it now ds is 11! She also wrote a book about the difficulties women face in trying to have a career and have kids, called 'Having None of it', which I just think is a brilliant title - instead of having it all, we're having none of it, in every sense.

I'm so pleased she's so successful (and yes, those are gritted teeth...)

Just tell us she was a demon 12 year old, and there's hope for us yet!

The thing I like about Get Out of my Life ... is that it is realistic. It doesn't claim that you will be able to eliminate bad behaviour by adopting this or that tactic. I find it incredibly reassuring, and every time I am having problems with my 14 yo I reach for that book and it invariably makes me feel better.

Meant to add, it doesn't just make me feel better (by letting me know that dd's behaviour is "normal"), but makes me feel better able to cope with the behaviour without turning into a screeching banshee myself. It can be hard to stay calm in the face of extreme teenage recalcitrance!

She was nice, actually. And pretty. But it does remind me of how awful it was to be a teenage girl in a highly competitive milieu - the pressure, the pressure! So I feel sad for any teenager going through hell.

I have also read "get out of my life" and it has been a great help for me and ds1 (14) I am now much more chilled about how he behaves and in being so, his behaviour started to improve after only a few days. I'm just trying to get dh to read the book, so that he will also have more of an understanding.

makealist
When you've persuaded your dh, let me know how!

I lent my copy to my xh in the hope that it would help him to deal with dd's teen behaviour in a less confrontational way. It didn't get through though! (Mind you, he's an idiot )

Is the H the girl's dad?

Yes the H is the girls dad.
On Sunday the 12 yo tried to puysh her mum downstairs.
I had told her (my friend X) about ignoring the girl when she swears, so she told her that on Sunday morning,, that X wouldn't acknowldege 12yo when she swears or screams as its not reasonable behaviour. So 12yo went upstairs and put her music on, thus waking 18month old, who had been up since 1am ( X's Dh is away, so she had been up since 1am with 18mth old)
When X went up to ttell off 12yo, she told X to F* off ". X turned her back and made to go downstairs whilst holding 18mth old. 12yo pushed her, and X slipped down three steps before landing on her bottom and sliding down the rest of the stairs, thankfully still holding onto 18mth old.
I have ordered her the book you are all recommending, but i don't know if it will help. My friend is at the end of her tether.

I think she needs to call Social Services in right now.

Or at least speak to her HV, if she has a reasonable one, and ask if she can refer. With this level of hostility and aggression X or the little ones could get hurt.

I know, I've told her this. I don't know why she won't - wether she thinks it will make her look like a failure as a mother I don't know. I'm so worried about her, she is a really good friend, I've only known her two years, but I feel like I've known her forever. She works all day, and gets no support from Dh, and all this aggro from 12yo
If she could get the support of the husband that would help.
I did suggest that she called the police and asked them to explain to 12yo that it was attempted murder, and that the law states that a 12yo knows the difference between right and wrong, and that perhaps it would give her a wee shock, but she wouldn't.
The 12yo friends were in the house when it happened, and they were so shocked the got up and went home and haven't called for her today to go for school bus.
On Friday the 12yo didn't get on the bus home from school, for no reason other than "she didn't want to", her mum then had to go and collect her.

Maybe the friends not calling for her will give her a shock and make her think?

I can understand her not wanting to go public about this but she needs to think about the little ones. And her H needs a smack

(First her = 12-yr-old, 2nd her = X, sorry!)