young teens and alcohol - genuinely interested

[willali]

So we have had to face for the first time the spectre of alcohol amongst DS's year group (Yr 9). For example:

kids arriving at parties clutching bottles of vodka
kids arriving already half cut
parents serving alcopops at parties

I am genuinely interested to hear from parents of young teens as to why / how they allow this kind of thing to go on at this age, in order to ascertain whether I am just a dinosaur

My parents had a very open attitude to alcohol. They weren't big drinkers, but there was always alcohol in the "Drinks Cabinet" and we were allowed to have some if they were having some. So at Christmas etc we could have wine & lemonade or whatever. I never got drunk on a park bench as a teenager, basically, alcohol was no big deal, I'd grown up having tastes and whatever, so I wasn't fussed about drinking as much as I could as soon as my parents weren't there to see me.

My sister has followed the same style of alcohol attitude with her kids, they are now 18 & 20, neither of them drinks to get hammered, my niece even stayed sober on her school prom night because she had dance practice the following day. When having BBQ's etc at her house my sister would buy breezers etc for my niece (there was always beer there for nephew too) from the age of about 14 or so, it has never been taboo or something they weren't "old enough" or "allowed" to do.

I intend to follow the same pattern with my girls as they get older. I already let them taste what ever I am drinking, be it wine, cider or something like a crabbies ginger beer, they are 5 & 8 and generally aren't bothered.

We need to take the buzz out of booze with teenagers. Stop making it such a big deal. The more you throw your hands up in horror and say "NO!!!" the more they will want to do it. Show them what responsible drinking is, lead by example. If they turn up drunk at your house, put them in a cab and send them home. If they bring vodka, put them in a cab and send them home, if they get stupidly drunk on a secret stash, put them in a cab...... Any teen that is drinking sensibly, having fun and not taking the piss, stays. My sister had numerous parties at her house for her kids in the last 5 years, very few of the friends took the piss, as they knew they could drink openly, so didn't binge out of sight.

Green Monkeys - I entirely agree with the sensible introduction at home thing. However when your child is somewhere else, with questionable supervision by parents who you don't necessarily know well or at all, it's a compeletely different and worrying scenario. It's in those circumstances where I think serving alcohol to 13/14 year olds is irresponsible. They have plenty of time to do the throwing up on the carpet thing

OOh this thread is exactly what I need today!

My DD is 14 - will be 15 by end of year. She is going to be babysitting her siblings on Saturday night as DH and I head off to a party some 20 minutes away. A very rare occurrence for us to go out.

Now forgive me MN for I have sinned - DD left her facebook signed on the other night and I read some of her messages (this was because she has been a nightmare teen for a while and we thought - correctly - that something was going on with her boyfriend. Thats a whole other story...)

Anyway, the upshot is that she has organised for one of her other friends to buy alcohol for her and her mate on Saturday night.

We are just so unsure of next steps....

1. We do not want her to drink. (She is allowed a glass of wine with dinner on SUndays, which she usually sips and leaves 90% of).
2. We will not be here is anything goes wrong with her and her friend (same age).
3. She is babysitting the other DCs, one of whom is asthmatic. SHe has to be responsible.

Sadly this is going to end badly - she will be horrible and throw a real strop that I read her facebook. Probably rightly so. But hey, Im da mamma, and its my PC.

I have thought about colluding with her friends mum, about hearing this from a third party, so that I can avoid the drama. But I know Im just being cowardly.

I felt that I would prefer mine to try alcohol in a supervised environment. She has never been stupid with it and is nearly 18 so I think it paid off. She is a sensible, mature girl anyway.

If a teen wasn't allowed alcohol at parties at home I wouldn't let them here. It really was just a couple of bottles of wkd or suchlike each, not heavy drinking. Occassionally one of DD's friends brings a bottle of wine around, they like to think they are being sophisticated but I find it still half full when I come in.

Really interested to read this thread. I've ventured over to the "teenagers" thread as my yr8 boy was excluded last week for taking vodka & lemonade in a water bottle on the bus to school, having been prompted to by another boy in his year. I was - and still am - absolutely horrified by the whole thing. We have, in fact, as parents, had a relaxed attitude to drinking in that at Christmas, special occasions, we have allowed the children a tinsy bit of wine in a tinsy cup etc. This has always been with the intention of keeping the trying of alcohol in a controlled environment.

I have found out today at the "return to school" meeting that DS1 has also tried smoking . This is from a sports-mad boy who as far as I was aware was anti-smoking, anti-drinking, anti-drugs and is passionate about joining the police force when he's older.

Will keep watching this thread - and others - to see if I can pick up any words of wisdom on how to deal with children that we don't know anymore .

Maryz, if the US had a track record of sensible drinking in young people I'd agree with you. However, the system in the US (drinking age of 21, parents can be prosecuted etc) has resulted in the same kind of inappropriate excessive secretive binge drinking that is a problem here in the UK. In Europe where the attitude to alcohol is much more relaxed there is nothing like the kind of alcohol based behaviour in teens.

adamschic - so how would you feel if your DD went to someone else's house where there were several bottles of vodka doing the rounds. How would you know it is a safe supervised environment. How would you know who is there? How would you know if youer DD went over the top and found herself in a difficult position (or worse) with a boy? As I said in your own home its fine and dandy but elsewhere.....

And WKD is actually quite a strong drink!

I think the problem is that while it might seem all fine and dandy to introduce alcohol nice and safely in a controlled environment and with a relaxed parental attitude if you have a child who is one of life's "risk takers" they are going to push the boundaries whatever you do.

DD2 is lovely and sensible and DS appears to be very similar but DD1 just wanted to try everything to as much excess as she could manage and I'm not sure how we could have changed her attitude. She is 20 now and has a healthy attitude to alcohol but the only thing that taught her to respect alcohol properly was being completely plastered (she was 16) and having to deal with the aftermath.

GreenMonkies DD1 is studying in the US and was completely shocked by Freshman at the back to uni event - they all arrived so drunk that there were a lot of kids behaving very inappropriately with people they had only just met. 13/14 is too young, 17/18 ok, 21 madness!

[hgrin] at Maryz thinking I would barr a child from a party for not drinking, you did read it wrong.

Lots of DD's peers have been throwing wild parties every weekend since they were 16. No adults present as parents go away all weekend. Mine isn't in with the wild crowd at all, she went to a couple, got drunkish at one, ended up in a not so great situation just as you described and now hates that type of thing. I just felt that she had let herself down a little but everyone does it and it's a learning curve. She's friends with the quieter ones, although is surprisingly quite popular with most of the groups in 6th form and has decided to grace go to a few 18ths.

As Webwiz said some teens will push boundaries whatever you do, guess I've been lucky with mine and I doubt I can take any credit for it whatsoever.

I can see where you are coming from. At least people would know where they stood on the law. With us it really was just a very small amount. I'm far too tight to provide alcohol to other people. Some brought their own and said their parents bought it for them.

I've been shocked at the parents who go away all weekend and leave their underagers to throw open their houses to half the kids in school on a regular basis. I see the photos on fb.

The law does work well in our area re pubs/clubs, the first time DD will set foot in a bar round here will be the day she turns 18 whereas we were veterans of the scene a year or so before we were legal. That's a good thing IMO. Whether DD becomes a regular pub and clubber remains to be seen.

webwiz, it's never ok to be so shit-faced that you behave "inappropriately" with people you've only just met, not at 17/18, 21 or 40. Well, I don't think it is.

I intend to allow my girls to drink at home, with me, and friends, as long as the friends have parental permission to drink, and bring their own, I wouldn't provide it for teens that weren't mine. And yes, I would check this with parents. I wouldn't host any big parties until my girls were 17/18, before that it'd be smaller groups, informal nights, like a barbecue or movie night, that kind of thing. It's about allowing them enough freedom to make decisions, whilst still maintaining a background level of supervision, and, I hope I have an honest enough relationship with my girls when they are this age for them not to feel they need to hide their partying from me. Discovering alcohol as a teen also includes getting drunk and having a hangover, I hope this happens at home, here, where I know they are safe, and not in a park, or in a mates house.

No doubt it'll all go tits up and I'll end up eating my words as my 15 year old staggers in pissed on a Wednesday evening.....

The trouble with checking with other parents is that you don't know the other parents, necessarily. I have just hosted a 17th birthday party for my DD1, and agonised about the alcohol aspect. In the end, I got some beer, researching what was the lowest % without actually being low-alcohol, and made some Bucks Fizz. The guests, few of whom I knew, brought all sorts of stuff - they'd been asked not to bring spirits, but lots brought alcopops and one brought a whole bottle of Malibu. The party was very successful, and not even a glass got broken, but I was acutely aware that if something had gone wrong, I didn't even know the names of the parents, let alone their contact details. I would certainly not have encouraged anyone who didn't want to drink to do so, but there was no way I could check the parents' views on alcohol when I didn't know who they were, and I don't see how anyone knows the parents of all their DC's friends by the time they are 17-ish. All I could do was ask a few friends if they thought my policy was reasonable, be on the premises in case of trouble, and hope for the best. I do think that at 17 it's not really possible to host a party without allowing alcohol, but if DD had been 15 there is no way I would have allowed it. It's an absolute minefield.

No, that's awful. When DD1 was that age, she was having social isolation type issues rather than early alcohol and drugs type issues, which, while extremely challenging in their own way, at least meant that I bypassed the early alcohol minefield with her because she wasn't going to that sort of party at that age. But I would have reacted just as you did!

"it's never ok to be so shit-faced that you behave "inappropriately" with people you've only just met, not at 17/18, 21 or 40. Well, I don't think it is. "

oh shit, thats the MN xmas do out the window

Somehow this just has never been an issue- I'm not sure how!

Kids are 12/15/18 now and as they've got to teens they've had a drop of wine offered at family dinners etc. Even now the 18yr old isn'that keen but the 15yr old enjoys half a glass of decent red wine LOL (he was introduced to that at a chambre d'hotel in france at 13 - it was just assumed the kids would have a glass).

Eldest and her mates get high on life and laughter at parties- at least they did at her 18th (12 of them managed 1 bottle cava 1 bottle white wine and 1 teen beer stubby, I don't think ther was smuggled alcohol as noone appeared drunk or hung over and noone threw up!). Must ask her how boozy freshers was!

15yr old doesn't yet "do" parties. Expecting a few drunken nights when he is old enough to go out with the rugby crowd though.

I sort of am more worried about DD2 who already looks 15-16 and mostly behaves maturely. However her best mate is muslim, so maybe alcohol will play little part in their parties too, who nows.

theas I envy you!!

It's been interesting to read all the replies and reassuring that I am not the "Wierdest mother in the world" (TM). HOwever I can't help thinking that most replies from those that do serve alcohol to their young teens (I know this will become the norm at 16+ as it was for me!) focus entirely on activities in their own home, under supervision. We cannot expect our kids to stay at home all the time and it is this aspect that concerns me most!

DS nearly 14. Have told him he's not allowed to drink till he's 18. I'm sure the age will be lowered at some stage (keeping it high at present to give me some bartering power later).

I personally wouldn't let kids under 16 drink in my house, end of really. Would never give DS money to buy alcohol to take to someone elses house either.

Mind you I'm not planning on letting DS have any parties at home either.

I think another problem is that how we (I'm 36) remember boozing is v different to now. Booze is cheaper and teens have more cash, so therefore can buy a lot more alcohol. There are also many more palatable fortified choices and social networking makes it easier to outfox parents/get your story straight (unless you leave your profile open )

Some of the parents who are super relaxed are probably fondly reminiscing about a bottle of Woodpecker between 6 of you, whereas the reality now is quite different.

very sadly, a freshman at local uni died over the weekend after getting smashed and choking on his own vomit. :(

militant - he wouldn't need any money if there is a bottle of vodka at someone else's house - that is the nightmare of this whole thing