5 day exclusion

[sparrowwatcher44]

My daughter(12 next month) is in her 2nd term at senior school and now this!

She had been taking her phone into school and taking photos, I know a big no, no.She then posted those school photos on her FB page and a mum of one of her friends saw them
and complained to the school.My daughter was hauled out of class, made to offer up her phone, they asked her if she had been messaging(she has a BB) and saw she had, then they asked her to get her FB page up, they looked at the photos and she has been in isolation since Tuesday.Her exclusion starts today.She has been so, so silly and I feel awful as I fought with her so hard for her not to take her phone in but every one of her friends and practically the whole year does this so it has been hard.I know, and expect to get berated as I have been a weak mum but I'd like to ask how you go against the tide of normalness as this is what it is.The school obviously has a no phones in school policy which isn't working and I see it as a real problem, my daughter wants to fit in as every 11 yr old girl would, and taking in her phone is part of this fitting in.
A cautionary message too mums and dad's , we have had the police involved as DD took some photos in the girl's loos in school.They were innocent , of her two mates messing about in the cubicles, no siiting on the toilet shots, no up the skirt or knicker shots.We were so shocked as it can be interpreted as a malicious offence, which it wasn't and its a privacy issue because of where it is(toilets)and it could be viewed as sexual.She is 11, she went into the toilets because it was where she felt she wouldn't get caught, I know, I know, I know she shouldn't have had her phone.The school wanted it to be a criminal offense, I stress again she is 11, only 11! This whole thing has just scared me so much I was just so unaware.She has breached serious school rules regarding data protection is it? and its a child protection thing as she put photos onto a 3rd party or something site (FB) but all of her friends are doing the same .So I would say, check your child's photo album on FB.The police officer we saw, he had to do a home visit said that he would have to do something called a Merlin report and the social services are involved.

My DD doesn't seem to have really learnt, it is because before she hadn't been in any trouble, other than detentions for not doing her homework and that she is a bright girl she is getting the 5 days as it could be anything up to 45 days!!!!!She has a whole heap of homework which she is refusing to do, that will look really good won't it.
All I can do is tell her that no homework no lappy time or no phone messaging time.

has anyone else had this defiance over doing homework and how have they overcome it?

Leaving aside the issue of whether an 11/12-yr-old should have a BB, and whether they should be on FB (I don't think they should) I don't understand why posting photos taken in school on FB is such a huge offence to OP's school - most under-16s I know do it, (generally Y10 & Y11 but still, legally children) & their pictures are taken in classrooms as well as at break.

Breaking the no phones in school rule needs to be addressed, but it doesn't justify a 5-day exclusion.

Ponders I think the issue was that the photos were taken in the school loos. Taking photos in loos is a breach of privacy even if near the basins and these were allegedly messing around in cubicles. All too easily this type of thing can lead to bullying. I can see the school's problem.

Sparrow's DD has already had detentions for other matters and also had posted these photos on facebook. Basically I think Sparrow's DD has run out of goodwill. This is bad because she is only in her second term, there is a long way to go.

What about the other dc at the school in their second term still taking photographs in school buildings - what happens to them - year 7 is not an easy year are the other classes being advised as to what can happen? Otherwise this dc is going to be excluded and go back to school where the same behaviour is still happening, which sends out a very mixed message to the OP's dd

Schools can only deal with what they can discover. Should schools be searching facebook for inappropriate images? It is one thing to 'know' that everyone is doing something, it is another to have sufficient evidence to actually be able to do something.

It is possible that this exclusion is being made by the school 'pour encourage les autres'. Sparrow's DD is perhaps a bit of a scapegoat but TBH that is what you get when the school runs out of patience.

I would have sympathy if this was a first offence but it isnt so I dont.

We had a teacher into work through work experiance and he was dealing with all 90 female pupils this week - as they were some that were causing trouble in year 7 and so he delt with them all to try and bring the trouble to a stop for now. he mentioned it will blow up again as it tends to with the girls but again we will have them all in and read the riot act before it all gets to much.

i know form my own experiance with dd1 that year 7 was a nightmare.

i see no problem with dealing with them all together - I wish they had done similar at dd1's school.

Hi Ponders, the school I know, are exasperated by this as it really is a problem, one I'm not sure they can address.

The exclusion I think is warrented as it is sending out a message, one which will probably be ignored as children that age think they are invincible but it's a message all the same.

My daughter had to tell them who else had been messaging that day(Tuesday) and she did tell on her friend who had her phone confiscated and spent the rest of the week in isolation, no exclusion.All of her friends post photo's of the school, in the playground etc on FB it's like a dare thing they do.I'm in a quandry now do I ask to look at my daughters friends FB pages and see if they have photo's taken in the school then anonymously phone the school and complain? If I did it enough times then perhaps they would see what a widespread problem it was.

I agree with what someone said about the toilet thing as it is a privacy thing and yes, use of phones in schools can easily lead to bullying.The policeman we spoke to said that he had only been in the job 3 weeks and he has had to deal with so much FB related stuff, children threatening children, parents getting involved and it all getting ugly etc.

You are the adult, she is the child. Take away phone, TV, laptop whatever until she does her homework.
God help you when she's older if you can't sort her out now.

The same behaviour will continue to happen.Children who have their phones confiscated still continue to bring them into school.

GnomeDePlume, I am having problems with my daughter, I have asked for help, the school were not helping me before this.I am going to ask for help when she goes back.I found your reply harsh, I am not asking for yours or anyones sympathy.when I contacted the school expressing my concern over the sanctions for not doing homework, the head of year did not appear that fussed.In their eyes she is doing o.k.I told them that DD still thinks that she has to do the detention ONLY and not the homework as well and she said she would speak to her.My daughter is getting very mixed messages, I know that she should just do the homework and then this would not even be an issue but for whatever reason that I can't find out she isn't.

If the phones keep coming into school then perhaps look at why this keeps happening and then try to work around the fact and possibly look at changing the rules so that less time needs to be spent on this issue - it must be a drain on teachers time

I agree with maryz that you should look at all the photos on your DD's FB & note who's posted them.

I can see that dobbing them all in might be tricky, as your DD won't want to fall out with them, but certainly tell school how many there are (posters, not photos)

It really pisses me off when one child is crucified like this to discourage the others

GnomedePlume, as others have posted here, plenty of kids take pictures in the loos (someone said "you can see the mirrors") - it's completely normal behaviour in this age group, & IMO the school is wrong to go this far about it, even if the child concerned does have other disciplinary issues.

Don't keep saying 'she is only 11' - she knows right from wrong - if not you should have told her

god there is some harsh judging going on on this thread

OP you have my sympathy. Teasing (bullying) at school for not having the right gadgets is relentless and can badly affect a childs happiness and school work. My DD's school has a policy whereby parents have to give written permission to have phones at school. Most kids have them. I have seen hundreds of pics on FB taken in the playground etc. It is a real problem. There should be a no phone rule and parents should adhere to it.
I do think that the school has treated your DD very harshly especially if others are doing it too.

actually I think knowing right from wrong is a bit different. If the dc had been hitting abusing in some way yes that is wrong, stealing or being dishonest.

I know right from wrong but taking photos in the loo - I had no idea it was wrong

I asked my DD1 (aged 15) what would happen at her school. She said the same would happen as at Sparrow's DD's school. Our school had huge discipline problems and is now cracking down hard. The school is also strict about mobile phones (allowed but must be off/silent and out of sight).

While I can sympathise with Sparrow, I cannot sympathise with her DD. She broke rules which she knew existed, now she has to take the consequences.

I dont agree with this 'only 11' thing. She knew that she was doing wrong hence hiding in the loos. When does this stop, only 12? only 16? One of the things taught at the secondary age is taking responsibility.

Tolerating this sort of thing makes me cross because every time someone else's DC is allowed to get away with something it makes my job with my DCs that bit harder.

Visit from the police, threatened charges and criminal record from the police, social services investigation and Merlin report, plus a five day exclusion for ...taking not rude pictures in the school toilets?

Did I get that right?

Sorry, but has the world gone mad??

Either she's a "child" as most of you would have, and should barely be trusted at home for an hour alone and certainly not with a Facebook account or a Blackberry, so not surprising that she should do daft things, which coming from a child we would expect, and we would normally cut some slack since no harm done, we would not expect a criminal record to result from these daft actions, either
OR

she's a mini adult, in which case she really ought to be allowed to take paid work and have sex and who knows what else, in which case the punishments OP describes might just about fit the "crimes".

No, I don't think OP is the "parent" any more, the school and others are making the rules for Sparrow, now. :(

you do have to take a stand though. I work in a very wealthy area comp, my kids go to indi schools, and i can assure you that most of them don't have blackberrys in y7, by y11 then yes most kids have an iphone or blackberry but not the younger kids.
I don't know of any school that doesn't take this kind of thing seriously and with good reason - it is serious, it does matter.
At the school i teach in the staff patrol the loos and there would be a riot if kids had their phones out in the loo, and especially if they were taking photos.
Thoroughly agree you need to be looking at her fb account, my ds3 was allowed fb at 12, but i'm his friend and can/will check postings, same really applies to ds1 and 2 - 17 and 15, though i rarely feel the need.

I do wonder whether these schools bother to actually speak to the children, pleasantly, about the implications of posting pics on FB etc, why it's a bad idea, & why the school would prefer it if they didn't?

As opposed to merely saying "DON'T BRING YOUR PHONES IN!!! DON'T POST PICTURES!!! OR ELSE YOU WILL BE EXCLUDED FOR 5 DAYS!!!!!"

It might help...

I don't think the reason for having a BlackBerry 'because all her friends have one' is good enough. She clearly isn't mature enough or responsible enough to have it - and I wouldn't expect her to be at the age of 11. She is too young.

As her mum, what are you going to say / do if all her mates get into horses? Rush out and buy her a pony? Or smoking? Or when they get to 14+ and they all get into Lambrini and having underage sex?

Don't be a sheep, have the guts to say no to her, she will still love you, start boundary setting now, while you still can.

I can sort of understand the 5 days exclusion, if they really need to crack down hard on the phone thing & any publishing pictures by pupils (photos taken on school premises, or are they going to start policing photos taken anywhere by pupils?? [Head in Hands Emoticon]). And maybe they could do a song and dance explaining that they could by rights call the police in. But actually calling the police and SS in for this single event, it's OTT.
At least on the face of it.
Sorry OP, but I half hope for everybody else's sake that you're leaving some vital facts out of the story.

no, ragged I can assure you I am not, that is all she did.The police said there was no case, he was dumbfounded as to the schools reaction.

in that case, sparrow, I wonder if you should think about drawing this incident to the attention of the national media.

Because it's mad!