M&S is cool, but we knew that, didn’t we?

[jellybobs]

Interesting article on the BBC website today. I’m actually really surprised that it’s not done a London Fashion Week show before.
Certainly over the last few years it’s become one of my go-to places if I decide I need new jeans, a particular kind of dress etc. It’s even acceptable to my 16yo DS who’s very particular about where his clothes come from and has quite a small list of “acceptable” high St brands he’ll deign to go into!

Is it cool to wear M&S clothes now? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cje3rk4p39zwo

Yeah - not trying to do a detailed socio-economic analysis of Jilly Cooper novels, but I was thinking about the Caitlin/Taggie/Janey characters who are the ‘every women’ (sort of) of the books. There are descriptions of them spending a significant proportion of their wages/savings in a local boutique-ish shop, not buying big designer brands (which is what eg. Cameron does). I was interested in the contrast between then and now - and using the example of your m an s skirt the equivalent would be me spending about £500 today, so I do think we have got used to clothes being quite cheap as a proportion of salaries.

People think my sister is! She has never put her face in the sun. I make up for her by looking older than my years, thanks to a 25-year perma-tan when younger. No regrets from either of us.

Sorry for the digression 😁

M&S went through a 'cool' phase in the 80s, when our fashion editor would come in with some samples and we'd all leg it down to the Marble Arch store to get our hands on the things before the editorial came out.

Those lines rarely made it to any other stores and sold out within days; they were obviously very short runs. I think they're doing something similar now, using the online store. The teal trouser suit (sorry, co-ords) in their autumn TV commercial was cotton velvet, nicely cut and under £200. It sold out straight away and is only visible now as text, no product listing at all.

I disagree. I think that its core customer base is middle aged and middle class, but that it’s trying to appeal to a younger market and just rarely quite hitting the mark.

Quote from advertising press article on Marks's autumn '26 campaign: "Now that John Lewis has got its fashion mojo back, Marks & Spencer is facing some serious competition on the high street (although in reality the battle is probably online).

"Autumn is the biggest fashion season of the year, and advertising for both brands has got to be stylish enough to attract the fashion crowd but safe enough not to alienate the traditional customer, all without succumbing to lowest-common-denominator blandness."

There’s a little error in your logic there.

No I don't think M&S is cool nor will it ever be.

Desperate possibly, but not cool.

Gosh that’s over sensitive. I can’t imagine getting worked up as random people don’t like the brands I like. As long as I like it, that’s all that matters,I’m not looking for validation from randoms on line.

@Notsosweetcaroline You obviously haven’t looked at all the M&S in house brands have you? I cannot understand why people cannot find classic well made clothes in very good fabrics. They are there!

As for the 80s and 90s, M&S had very few stores where the top items would be stocked. They graded the stores according to how “wealthy” or not the area was. So you didn’t get the best items at Meadowhall but you would at Marble Arch.

I find editorials will suggest the best of M&S and I’m usually quick off the mark on line and get what I like. I do find that’s a good indicator as to what I should pick but I don’t wear what doesn’t suit me. Style matters to me and many women can be well dressed by buying M&S for a modest outlay - eg their cotton shirts for women are first class. High quality poplin for the money.

Id just say that it’s no good expecting the best of fabrics in M&S that’s in an average income area. I think even now, that won’t happen.

Yes I have and I’m talking about on line as well as some major stores.

honesltu no one needs to be defensive about m and s.

@NotsosweetcarolineAnd you don’t have to lie! I do like M&S as well as many other brands but I don’t buy this “low quality” description. Shop in a discerning way and it’s pretty good quality.

What? I’m not lying, what an odd accusation.

@Notsosweetcaroline You said “the quality is generally low” and “many would prefer to pay slightly higher prices to have quality items that don’t look cheap”.

These statements are largely rubbish. The quality is not generally low. Like many stores there are lower priced items because there is a need to compete with Primark - sadly. But there it is. However it’s not true to say “generally” low quality. When I buy or look at similarly priced items from elsewhere the quality of M&S brands stack up pretty well.

Then there’s the issue of paying more. You can. There’s Autograph and Jaeger for silk, wool and cashmere. However you are utterly wrong if you think you have to pay a “little more” for such fabrics. Have a look at Boden or Arket prices or Cos. You cannot have premium fabrics for a little more. You cannot even have wool mix fabrics for a little more nir a silk/cotton mix. Look at Poetry or Wrap prices if you don’t believe me.

So sadly these assertions are a big fat lie.

The main point here is that you have to be more and more discerning. And every time they claim to be having a revival and be really nailing it (whatever ‘it’ is) the dad reality tends to be that there are half a dozen or so truly brilliant things amidst a whole sea of tat. You only need to look at the sale rails to see how much tat they’ve failed to flog.

Interesting observation, @pondplants.

Certainly in the 70s when I was a teen it was taken for granted in magazines and popular culture that one might save up for, or recklessly blow a month’s money on a fabulous frock. It seemed normal.

In the 80s when I was at university there were astonishing stories of fellow students who’d thrown an entire term’s grant at Laura Ashley.

(And what year was it that Buffy steeled herself to spend her whole year’s allowance on a prom dress?!)

I’m afraid this devil may care attitude rather spoils one for the penny pinching 2020s …

I find you have to touch and feel the clothes, which makes online shopping harder.

I also find it is not worth spending £30 on a cardigan that will be discoloured or worn out after 2 seasons, when I would rather spend £90 on something that will last 5 - 6 years. It saves time as well as money. The truth is that you just have to buy less, and change up the necklace.

M&S mens is also not bad. They had a satin chocolate bomber for £60 in extra small. I wish I hadn't hesitated!

lots of people distrust influencers. I don’t believe for one second that stylish person earning ££££ by selling me an aspirational lifestyle is being genuine when they recommend M&S item. They’re telling me that becuse they earn money via an affiliate link. They wouldn’t choose it and they would not wear it. Unless they were being paid. It’s dishonest and brings me back to my original point that we’re being brainwashed. If you see m&s everytime you doomscroll on insta it worms its way into your psyche. You start to believe that M&S is what you want or need. More fast fashion is seldom what anybody needs.

@DeathBanana It’s just not M&S who do this? You’d have no shops left if you took this view with everyone. I take very little notice of influencers and don’t subscribe to any but I do subscribe to Red magazine and they come up with M&S clothes as do the newspaper magazines. Plus I’m quite good at searching out what I like by using the online filters.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner there is a direct link between advertising spend, which keeps magazines afloat, and editorial content. Twas ever thus - it’s not real. I’d say though that a magazine such as Red, aimed at middle aged women, recommending an M&S item is slightly more credible than a 23 year old saying she’s “obsessed” with one, while earning commission from every click through, then a percentage of anything that person spends on the website for the next 30 days.

I think you've completely misinterpreted my comment!

You're absolutely correct - M&S is just a brand, & the point of this thread is to allow people to voice their (equally valid) opinions on it, whether positive or negative. So I completely agree that it's a bit daft to get upset if someone trashes the quality of their knickers!

Personally, I couldn't give a toss whether people think M&S is great, dreadful or (IMO) somewhere in between. I have no strong feelings whatsoever about the M&S brand - I have liked some Autograph clothing lately, & I do still buy some underwear there, but that's about it? So perhaps you're confusing me with another poster who's a more devoted fan?

What HAS annoyed me is all the shit that people are hurling at each other on this thread, where they seem to think that only their own opinions can possibly count? THAT'S what I mean about "nit-picking, intolerance & barbed comments" - some of which you yourself have been on the receiving end of, from more than one poster ...?!!

I mean, so far people have called each other clueless, unstylish, without fashion sense, snobbish, dismissive, rude, ridiculous, liars ... oh, & "Mums Bitchers"??!!! And that's not even all of it! Admittedly, some of these were in response to rudeness - but I find it all a bit unnecessary & wearing ...

In contrast, this has been a delightful & fascinating thread to read - & not an insult to be found!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/style_and_beauty/5577238-but-what-has-actually-influenced-your-wardrobe-shopping-choices

I would say, though, that their Plan B seems to have faded away into Plan Bollocks!

They've clearly set their past loftier environmental aspirations to one side, to follow the fast-fashion money machine. And that's sad, as I think M&S is a brand that commandeered enough respect to have been a real positive force for change, & got the sustainability message through to otherwise disinterested shoppers. They've thrown away that chance now.

No one mention gussets 😂

Is any other high street retailer expected to sell clothes that a) keep up with fashion, b) are high quality c) are budget friendly and also d) have a physical store in pretty much every major town?

This is what M&S is tasked with delivering and yet I can’t think of a single competitor that performs well across all those criteria. Am I missing one?

There was no cheap clothing!! Literally nothing apart from jumble sales.

This thread is bonkers. M&S is the poshest clothing you can buy in my town. I love their new range.

Who the fuck wants silk and wool jumpers? I want something I can bung in the wash at the end of the day.

Well, this thread certainly took a turn. Most of it’s pretty muddled, though.

The opening argument was that M&S has become “cool,” ie it is trendy right now. Fashion-lead usually does incorporate modern supply chain approaches like regular drops, social media influencing, etc. This seems to offend some MNers so much that they completely ignore the original comment - that M&S is cool right now - in favour of complaining that it’s not Uniqlo (cheap natural fibre basics) or Palome (midrange natural fibre basics, no physical shops).

Next, I look forward to earnest rants about how Topshop, Zara, & Other Stories etc are not “cool” because they are not Toast.