I love Style and Beauty but...

[thedevilinablackdress]

I'm increasingly saddened by every other thread (if not more) being a catalogue of things that posters don't like about themselves (arms, legs, height, age, hair, etc etc etc). I get it, we are often here asking for advice about dressing for something outside our comfort zone, or when life and/or our bodies have changed. But it's so pervasive, how we see ourselves as a catalogue of flaws to be fixed. I wish it was not so.

It is … frustrating. And an attitude I had no idea existed so generally until I came to MN. (Nearly twenty years ago.)

Only a vanishingly small proportion of posters seeking advice or suggestions lead with wanting clothes they’ll love. It’s all about covering this, or disguising that, or being absolutely mortified that they’re expected to dress their 40 / 50 /60 year old selves in clothes. Oh, no - everyone else will be 24! Help!!!

I’ve spent far too much of my own time over the years trying to shift perspectives. Really don’t know what to say any more. 🤷‍♀️

Isn't it the nature of a board about style and beauty that many of the people drawn to it will spend a higher than average time thinking about what they look like? (I saw your thread in Active, before you ask)!

It stands to reason that people who are more focussed on eg work/hobbies/relationships/religion do not frequent Style & Beauty. Eg I am perfectly happy with my body - it has better/worse bits like any other, but I am just a mammal going about my life, and my body functions very nicely for that. I wear clothes which are comfy and make me happy with their colours/prints etc. I don't bother with skincare or anything. So obviously I won't spend much time on Style & Beauty!

It's self-selecting, is what I'm trying to say. People who think about their bodies more will undoubtedly dwell on the less conventionally attractive bits. If they have bits they are happy with they don't need to come on here and ask about them. "The skin on my legs is beautiful and soft - what shall I do?!"

I’m on S&B because I’m interested in clothes. Not because I’m constantly worrying over perceived bodily flaws. I generally hope to chat to other people who enjoy thinking about clothes!

Nonsense. I manage to be interested in work, hobbies, relationships, religion AND style and beauty. We are not all vacuous numbskulls and it's possible to be both deep and interested in looking good.

Yes it's sad that people feel insecure about their bodies, but I wonder if that point is sometimes overstated or assumed. There's also a certain realism in dressing for a certain body shape / age /colouring / setting. I know I have broad shoulders so I try and wear clothes that will balance me out. I'm not trying to hide them, I'm just realistic about what what suits me.

When you are an outlier in terms of size or shape it can be impossible to find anything to look good in..I think you need to see it from other perspectives

I agree - a variety of interests is healthy, and hopefully prevents too much mind space being taken up with dwelling on your "less good" body parts. People whose mind space is more focussed/obsessed with what they look like than yours is, are likely to post on Style and Beauty.
Obviously not everyone here is obsessed with what they look like! But I bet you find a much higher proportion of these people here than you do on eg the politics board, or the Doghouse, or whatever.

But most people aren’t outliers, @VividDeer. Hundreds and hundreds of OPs arrive in breathless panic, certain that no clothes at all can be found for a size 14, 5’4 woman … And if she’s over 40 she’s likely to believe that £30 of nylon chiffon from Next is the very best she can hope for in terms of style.

Of course we're thinking about what we look like here, but it seems the default is grinding negativity. Unsurprising given the relentless marketing about "flattering" clothes or "anti-ageing" potions and treatments. I'm by no means immune, but I strive to not talk myself and others down.

Flattering clothes are like magic, though. I can look like a washed-out sack of spuds or a million euro depending on the cut, colour, fit, fabric of clothes, and annoyingly it's all the ones that fit badly that seem to be widely available

I do get what you mean though - flesh doesn't need to be smooth and flat to be not-covered-up, and on the beach I don't think I've ever looked twice at another woman's clothes or body so I feel sad that people feel so imprisoned by some attitudes.

And if you're e.g. very pale and see lots of threads about "needing" to cover/colour pale legs etc (or whatever thing you thought was ok before you read multiple threads about how to hide it) then I can see how those views spread. I'm generally past caring but I know others aren't.

I just wanted to pick up that last line there. Me too. I honestly don’t think many posters recognise either of those things though. So frequently I hear ‘they don’t suit anyone under 5ft7, tanned, willowy, tall and slim, over 6st, over 30/40/50/60 etc. It’s fucking tedious at times and often incorrect.

They’ll no doubt think they are right and anyone else is wrong though then 5 years later (whilst never admitting they were wrong) shout from the rooftops that they are not going to give up their beloved skinny jeans/wide leg trousers/jumpsuits for anyone just because they aren’t in fashion anymore!

I hadn’t thought about this before but yes, you’re right op.

But then I find it astonishing how many women have literally no idea how to dress themselves, or how to dress for a particular occasion.

Im regularly horrified by some suggestions on “what to wear to a wedding” threads. I don’t comment that of course.

It doesn’t bother me. People are looking for advice on how to feel good about themselves, and that may mean using clothes or accessories to disguise or draw attention away from perceived flaws or insecurities.

The thing that bothers me about S&B is when people ask what’s trending, or what to wear for an event, and then a load of people come on and say ‘Wear what you like, not what’s in fashion’ and just think they’re superior than anyone who cares about trends. That is tiresome and it’s killing the S&B board, which was originally a much less toxic place than AIBU.

So am I @BitOutOfPractice they suggest what I consider to be horrible!

I’ve become more confident as I approach 40 and more accepting of my body as it is. I wear what I like and have fun with it.

My pet peeve is shapeless midi dresses as I think they make everyone look big! Something slightly fitted is more flattering regardless of size.

I'm 5'3", age 66, generally a 14 occasionally a 12 or a 16. I don't have any bad bits I want to hide or good bits I want to accentuate. I'm very happy with my body.

they don’t suit anyone under 5ft7, tanned, willowy, tall and slim, over 6st

This comment is infuriating. I've had it said about my clothes, clothes which in real life generate masses of compliments.

I agree with OP and the other posters I've given thumbs up to.

Oh and flattering, frumpy and mumsy can get lost.

I agree about the negativity and that it feels like it's getting worse. It does get me down sometimes. I used to think it would be the ageism that would drive me away from S&B but this is possibly worse.

I think the dressing for your shape' philosophy has a lot to answer for. It might have started off as a positive, 'take control and be your own stylist' approach to dressing, but the way it encourages people to dwell on their perceived flaws can be a real downer. I say this from my own experience as I used to believe in it and follow it myself until I realised I was becoming obsessed with my perfectly normal thighs and jawline and gave it up.

I'm here because I love clothes and enjoy talking about them, especially clothes I don't normally see on my high street.

Im so fed up of wandering around shops wondering what will suit me and whether or not it's worth taking anything to the changing room, always a depressing experience.

The clothes are usually shown on models that are nothing like my shape and there is no advice given by the shops that might help someone like me.

Consequently I have to turn to other women for help, and I'm very conscious about the differences between my figure and the 'ideal' as demonstrated by the model.

Wish I felt differently

One thing that is often suggested on here is to get a personal shopping session at John Lewis. I tried this, went in feeling quite confident about my then short and slightly overweight body. By the time I had tried on the offerings which comprised of a baggy jumpsuit with a saggy arse, a floral synthetic dress and jacket more suitable for a Hyacinth Bucket type and a turquoise floaty thing which was very cruise line singer I was in a state of despair.
Once I had gone round again with her and found a lovely blue French Connection dress she insisted it needed a cream leather jacket with it. I felt quite oK about myself when I arrived but quite upset when I left.

I hear you, OP. I’m particularly irked by the insistence on ‘suitability’ for age. Why can’t women of all ages wear clothes that interest them? Not ‘flatter’ them (eye roll).

And it’s pervasive - I heard a little voice in my head asking whether I could ‘get away with’ a flouncy ruffled floral number, showing a bit of skin, arguably designed for someone in their 30’s, at the age of 58. Why the hell not though? It’s gorgeous, it fits, I like it. If I wore a polyester tent from Next instead, I would not feel better.

We’ve got to challenge that voice and seek the joy, which if you’re remotely interested in clothes, is what it’s all about.

For me to like an outfit it has to tick all the boxes, including being flattering. It's one of a range of considerations including does it reflect my personality/current trends/the weather etc.

I have wide hips and am fairly flat chested. I am also slim with a flat stomach. I dress to suit both these 'positives' and 'negatives'

Equally, I like orange as a colour. I look terrible in orange so I don't wear it as it makes me look ill. That's not low self-esteem.

This. Or they link some £600 marmite designer item for someone who is trying to regain their style confidence and currently doesn't have a frame of reference for what they like or what looks good on them.

idk, I think it makes sense though. People often use these kinds of boards for help with problem areas. If you have a feature you love generally you are happy enough with it anyways!
Hearing how other people deal with a similar issue to you is helpful.
(everybody has things they dont like about themselves. Its just human nature).

Im not a big fan of the 'can I wear this at my age?' threads though. Its always the most randomly normal stuff and really you can wear anything at any age (and only a few very niche things will be strange looking!).

I think it’s culturally the way many English women talk about themselves. “I look like a fat nan” “I look like I’ve been dragged through a hedge” and then all the references to coronation street characters that I don’t understand but apparently they wear too much leopard print. Culturally you’re not allowed to shine.

“I look like a fat nan” “
I thought the "Suzy Quatro's fat nan" thread was as funny as stepping in a pool of cold cat sick in your bare feet.

Not everybody is comfortable in their own bodies, good for you if you are. Many women like midi dresses - why the looking down your nose at folk for not being the same as you? 'Pet peeve' - lovely!

I am very fond of a midi dress, just not a shapeless one!

objectively my body is in its worst state due to my disability but I’ve done a lot of work in and out of therapy to accept my body for what it is and I won’t not wear shorts any more.