Am I unreasonable to enjoy being challenged by my clothes?

[TroubledBloodyMary]

Prompted by this:

Lyst article

and by reactions on a current H&M thread, I’m wondering if I’m the weird one, rather than everyone else on the Style & Beauty board.

To be fair, I grew up reading Vogue, so am perhaps more accustomed to wildly stylised fashion images and exaggerated clothes than someone younger whose yardstick might be an insta influencer pouting in the mirror whilst showing off her beige leggings. But I’m honestly astonished at the number of perfectly unexceptional things - colourful dresses or furry shoes for example - that people react to with horror here. I do sometimes wonder what S&B is for …

@AzurePanda I actually think your friend sounds fabulous! Good on her. I couldn’t carry it off myself but I admire her for wearing what she wants. One person’s ridiculous is another person’s freedom of expression.

And given this is MN, there’s nothing wrong with a bit of a batshit.

My childhood best friend (50 years of friendship so far) and I have some very different ideas about style (and also some spookily similar ideas, for example we are both currently obsessed with capes despite living 250 miles apart and having very different lifestyles). She sent me a photo recently of her dog but part of her outfit was showing and I replied with “what the fuck are you wearing?!”. When I meet her she likes to deliberately wear something which she knows I’ll hate. But she also knows I love her dearly and actually I’ll support her choices in whatever she wears as long as I’m also allowed to roll my eyes.

I like @Hollieandtheivie ’s analogy about liking gardening.

The gardening analogy is quite a good one.

But it’s like - most people are probably looking for advice and discussion on when to prune the hedges, which perennials to put in, what lavender is best in this type of soil, do you have a bird feeder, what looks nice next to aliums, is it too late to get the tulip bulbs in. What size garden works for kids to play football in.

And there’s a continuum right up to the people who are much more interested in the type of gardens winning new and interesting prizes at the Chelsea flower show, gardens that tell a story, with a bigger message about our society, wholly ecologically focussed or all based around exciting structural shapes.

Both ends of the spectrum are great and interesting ways of being involved in gardening. Both matter to people. People in the first gardening group may think that group b are over complicated and not in the real world. Group b may think that the first group are dullards, doing same old same old. They get different things out of gardening. They’re bound to comment on each others opinions but it’s not ok for either to be dismissive - and on the fashion / clothes discussions this happens very much both ways. Probably more criticism of the more “vogue” type fashion but I think that’s because there are far more “non vogue” type people in the world.

Although maybe one difference is that it would never occur to me to go and scold posters on a gardening thread. I don’t even know if there is a board specially for gardening ...
There is. The threads are mainly good natured. I wouldn't post about astroturf or concreting over a garden on there.

The pets boards are fine as long as you don't mention deliberate cross-breeds, rehoming a dog, or buying a puppy.

Now I just join in the Toast threads here as I do quite like Toast for every day and they usually manage to get to forty pages without Grayson Perry being invoked to put someone in their place.
The Toast threads are mainly posters who are evangelical about Toast.
I posted on one once then unwatched it soon afterwards

I love wacky clothes aand bright colours. I actually possess a pair of hairy court shoes - but it's short bristly hair (pony skin, I think). I bought them heavily reduced in a sale at Jones Shoes many years ago.
I also have shoes from Irregular Choice (who are going bust 😥)
https://www.irregularchoice.com/?srsltid=AfmBOopUD5fiz_WJK1NxUwzBo-g7E_oWjJUILQGLV-ecUlB6xdvFcWm0
and Hot Chocolate https://www.hotchocolatedesign.co.uk/

Nb. I am in my 70s

I’m not surprised that Irregular choice are going out of business. I’m sure they still have their fans but there can’t be anywhere near enough of a market for that kind of thing now.

The really surprising thing was that they lasted so long, when you consider all the other, even quite popular fashion brands that went under immediately post-pandemic.

I know some people who wear Irregular Choice shoes.

I've never owned Irregular Choice but I'm sad they are going out of business.

Same here.

TBF this is Mumsnet and not a true representation of all women’s fashion choices is it? I don’t think it has anything to do with ‘the time’ we’re in.
Instagram is more inspiring- for example ‘Londoners in London’ showcases a great example of interesting clothes and outfits that everyday people are wearing about town.

I think I know what you mean.
End of day, only criterion is comfort and warmth.
The rest of the time there’ll be at least something that sparks joy. Interesting provenance, texture, cut.
Today I’m literally seeing no one, just sitting driving. I’m wearing boring jeans (ie not a cool cut) for comfort. Some walking boots (because I need them on arrival) but also a beautiful but comfortable Rosemunde top

Loving that there was "fertile ground" in the gardening analogy... sorry, couldn't help myself 😆

Anyone who pays $995 for this must be raving mad
MAISON MARGIELA Gingham shell scarf | NET-A-PORTER

It's not out there, it's just horrible!

I like wearing the odd outrageous thing but most of the time I cba

It was me who mentioned fast fashion and here's why. If you are the "clothes are art" type person, you are buying things like this monstrosity which was linked to on a recent thread.
https://sisterjane.com/collections/dresses/products/helen-bib-jacquard-midi-dress?edit=one

And if you love it, that's fine. But it's very "now" and that particular brand will have more monstrosities in stock in a few months time. If you are buying things which are challenging, or high ffashion, or because you think they are art, you are signalling to other people who know the brand, hoping they will recognise it, ask you where its from or just comment on it being a bit out there. To keep getting that reaction, you need to keep buying more. Because the next time you wear the brown shiny monstrosity, it's just "Oh there's Airpods in that awful frock again".

If you are buying things which are challenging, or high fashion, or because you think they are art, you are signalling to other people who know the brand, hoping they will recognise it, ask you where its from or just comment on it being a bit out there.

Alternatively, here’s a novel concept: some people buy things purely because they LIKE them.

Well that's true, but there is an argument going on here that people are buying things that they are not particularly keen on because they think of their clothes as art which they display. (Bonkers to me but there you go).

I have one Sister Jane dress. I expect to be wearing this dress for years.

Sister Jane, like other brands I like and mention e.g Egg, Klements, Cabbages & Roses, Palava, Casey Casey, CFCL, Pauw and several, possibly most, of the brands name checked in this thread have house styles. Clothes aren't intended to be replaced every year.

Sorry but you're just talking nonsense now. No one has said they buy clothes they don't like.

Yes I approach clothes from the clothes as art view than the "does it flatter me and show off my great figure" view but why the hell would I buy a dress I don't like any more than a picture I don't like?

Sister Jane is hardly making a statement! They are available at John Lewis. So high street fashion. Not expensive and a bit twee. Lots of it hugely reduced.

And here you have proved the point. What " challenges" one person doesn't another so it isn't possible to say then that one brand is superior or more challenging than another.... but you have as did the OP.
Some people don't want to wear diamanté embellished knitted knickers or a dress with spaceships on or Lucy and Yak dungarees - so be it ! We can have a laugh at fashion especially catwalk fashion and yes we all know it filters down to High Street shops in some way. Honestly we don't need the preaching and the talking down to because we don't like a pair of fur shoes.

I noticed that - quite a number of " milkmaid " dresses there.

I think some people forget that challenging is going to mean different things to different people.
If you live in the middle of London you probably see much more variety and more higher end clothing however if you are in small town outfit choices might be safer, high st brands and cheaper.
It means some people will stand out in clothing that others find safe or mainstream (and likewise others will be shocked by the price and style of other people's clothes!). It might be that both are challenging local style conventions, just not compared to each other.

I wouldn't say I dress particularly crazy but I do sometimes wear things that aren't the normal 'uniform'.
Oh, and seen plenty of hairy shoes about......if we are including fluffy slippers coz nightwear as day wear is a big thing round this way!😆

I agree with this - I generally love reading about design (clothes, jewellery, interiors, buildings) but I will never own high end jewellery or a London town house or most of the garments I admire - but that doesn't mean I'm not interested!

I also find the lack of interest in environmental impact and modern slavery here and in any fashion magazine or forum quite depressing. I'm probably not much better than the next person in what I buy but I am aware of the issues and it feels like most people don't know or care about slavery in cotton production & other massive issues. People constantly rant about prices - if it's dirt cheap it's because the person sewing it was on about 50p an hour & there was zero concern for environmental regs during production.

I also find the lack of interest in environmental impact and modern slavery here and in any fashion magazine or forum quite depressing. I'm probably not much better than the next person in what I buy but I am aware of the issues and it feels like most people don't know or care about slavery in cotton production & other massive issues. People constantly rant about prices - if it's dirt cheap it's because the person sewing it was on about 50p an hour & there was zero concern for environmental regs during production.

I agree that on MN there seems to be a relative lack of environmental awareness/concern when compared to the ‘outside world’, particularly from the ‘cheap as chips’/Primark shoppers (I don’t intend that to be sneary although it might sound that way so apologies) but I’m also aware that some people have very limited/no budget and may well be making a choice between buying food or clothing their children so the external impact of their choice is going to be the last thing on their mind.

However, in the world I inhabit, the majority of people are very environmentally aware. Admittedly I live in part of London that most people consider to be be a hipster / fashion haven but I don’t see huge differences with the people I know outside of London. The majority of clothes I buy are sourced ethically and/or from deadstock/recycled fabrics and/or preloved/vintage and I’ve been buying that way for the last decade at least. It’s so much easier to do these days but I was lucky enough to discover Christopher Raeburn as a designer/brand and he really opened my eyes. He’s been a pioneer of recycling and reusing for a long long time (and is now taking Timberland down that path as their creative director). For me it was actually a complete (lucky) accident that I was walking past his (now former) Hackney studio and it just looked like really interesting stuff was going on in there so I Googled it when I got home and that’s how I first heard about Raeburn. I’m now such a groupie (embarrassing I know!) that he recognises me and we have a chat, and I get invited to special London Fashion Week previews and one-off events etc. Cue a gratuitous photo of some genuine 1970s Wombles that Christoper Raeburn sourced and made them tiny versions of some of his most notable recycled outfits over his career at a retrospective he held at last year’s LFW. Actually had a lovely chat with him about how hard it was to find the Wombles at an archive sale of his I went to (and I’m now the proud owner of a preloved Womble).

Sorry, that was a very long winded story but I’m trying to give an example of how there are plenty of people who ARE aware of these things.

I also think people who post asking opinions on Shein or Cider of similar are told exactly how awful they are.