Les Parisiennes des Mamansnet: It's French charm, you know, beheaded people, red wine and blood all over the place - it's romantic, it's normal.

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

Previous Thread

With that masterful display of under over sharing I'd half believe you're in politics now Bani 🧐

Haider Ackermann has been announced as Tom Ford's new designer. I'm torn between being excited (the tailoring will be impeccable, I am here for the razor sharpness of it all) and despair at the inevitable prices and holding out faint hope that him earning a proper salary elsewhere will mean his own brand gets a bit of impetus again (but he's also working for Canada Goose or something so I suspect not 🫤).

Call me the spin doctor.

I've lost track of all these young designers. Googled Ackerman but images are mostly his face, which gives me little on clothes. Have no patience for more. But I do enjoy tailoring.

In cheaper news H&M have launched some sort of collection (or are going to, a Swedish fashion instagrammer published photos). Supposedly "mid-segment". I.e. suede coat for over 200 euro and poly sequin blouse for around 60. A not-quite-hip idea all around was her conclusion I think. Celebrity children as models, no-one knows them. Brat (summer) has been tagline, that's over.

Well in my fevered imagination - which I won't share - you're having a lot of fun in Stockholm, bani so I hope that bit, at least, is true.

I also had to google Ackermann and then was too distracted by that splendid 1970s TV detective moustache to notice the clothes but people seem to think it's well deserved and are very pleased for him. And if some of that tailoring trickles down then we might all see some benefit.

And then I googled 'new H&M collection' and oh my, what a lot of gushing and air kissing. All I can say is that, if they've paid half as much attention to the clothes as they have to the PR, then it should be pretty amazing. Looking at the previews, there seem to be a lot of knitted shorts and faux leather but also one or two promising tailored pieces and even - which won't go down well on this board - some court shoes with high heels. Launch on September 12th.

There's a new doughnut place in Stockholm I plan to visit. #fashion #highfashion

Ooh I was told krämbullar were the current hot thing in Stockholm. Have I been lied to and is it fashionable doughnuts instead? Do they sell you the empty hole and donate the rest to a starving orphan?

I can't make sense of what the new h&m collection is, I only see Anamika Khanna for H&M which isn't that new so I don't think that's it? Which is kind of an interesting collection though if I were a hippy dippy type, lots of silk flowy things with a bit of originality which you don't see that much at that price.

I thought Nepo babies were getting rejected now, gen alpha is even more bizarre to keep up with than gen-z (but I will do so for the sheer enjoyment of watching gen-z realise they're getting older and less relevant, which in their world view is old and irrelevant).

Krämbullar surely aren't new? Thing is doughnuts are too uncommon in this country so we're always on the look-out for decent ones. Krämbullar might be a hot new trend but they haven't been particularly rare I'd say? Must google this trend. They do have fads in Stockholm but it's a bit as if London had discovered curry sauce on chips.

Don't know if collection is out even. The insta account with info is Modemassakern - but she does this thing of talking in long reels which I don't think is the point of Insta so didn't pay much attention.

I think it's a revived elevated nostalgia thing? That's how I understood it anyhow. Or maybe the popularity is just down to how Lillebrors Bageri keeps photographing them like kawaii boobs (slightly lopsided for authenticity)?

I haven't visited our local scandi bakeries in a while but if they don't start hawking krämbullar by Easter I'm going to think I was lied to about this trend. I might just make some of my own, they don't seem that hard but at the moment the weather feels too summery for them.

And, yy, good doughnuts are rare, there was a specialty shop a while ago but it was kind of crap 😶 in Antwerp they had one but with square donuts which also didn't blow me away. Maybe it's my tastes (although both shut down pretty quick), I kind of like a crap donut reminiscent of supermarket ones from my childhood which were extremely sticky but not all that sweet

My school 'dinners' (lunches) were generally not too bad, except in one dire school (I didn't eat anything despite punishments).

Best of all, at my comprehensive we had the most amazing doughnuts, fresh and warm with sauce made of watered down jam. Gorgeous!

Yes, I think I just prefer simplicity, not too much messed around with. I probably remember them tasting better than they did though.

Sarah Burton has been named as Givenchy's head designer which I'd kind of anticipated. Not sure how to feel about it, it probably suits her better but I fear that will have her leaning in too much in the boring staid stuff. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt though, I'm prepared to be surprised and hope that a change of context will have her unearthing some new creativity.

Burton at Givenchy will probably be very boring!

Am surprised at the lack of knowledge around Ackermann, he's been around for ages, I kind of love Tom Ford in that 'gay fashion man that loves glamour' way, we all need more of that, I love my gays, they do always push my flamboyant side.

But, as I get older I also feel that I did a lot of donkey work for them and I've just fallen out with my 'best' friend of 35 years, I'm dead to him apparently.

So I'm feeling very conflicted about gay men in fashion at the mo'.

Might be a personal thing, I've been drawn to gay men since my parents had fabulous friends in the 70s/80s.

But maybe what I was drawn to was transgression, and now gay men have been completely accepted by the patriarchy, I've gone off them a bit...

Anyhoo!

Very interesting Tatare, albeit very difficult for you (to lose a friend). You're being very candid too! It's a complex dynamic I think.

Well, no-one looks to me for name-dropping designers. My memory is shocking and on the whole I am probably still an "alternative" teenager deep down and will remember some random hippie "creator" more easily than established designers. ;)

Oh - krämbullar, also called solbullar, are apparently not hard. But I have never been arsed because you do have to pipe the filling in which I can't be bothered with.

It IS a complex dynamic Banivani, in the 70s/80s/90s to be a flamboyant and outspoken woman/girl was to be a bit of an outlier, gay men were a natural ally.

I did so much for fucking acceptance, maybe because it suited me, I guess it wasn't entirely altruistic, it was more a 'seeing'. I see you, it's ok. We can be different together.

But fuck me, my 'best' friend of 35 years turned on me so badly last year after an argument about 'sex work', I'm not sure we were ever actually friends.

I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of gay men were just waiting to be accepted by the patriarchy. Women were just an adjunct.

I know this is fashion chat. But, but, I feel there's things I need to unwind here.

I want to own my flamboyance, I don't want my flamboyance to be the work of gay men.

I think it's probably a conversation I need to have with myself around allowing myself to be the woman I am. I don't need a coterie of gay blokes cheering me on because it behoves them.

Complex.

I've never really been into Tom Ford fashion all that much, the makeup I love though. And if I were into fragrance I'd definitely be permanently hovering over in that section. I like him best for the art direction of his films though, don't care that it can be tediously slow and a bit one dimensional story telling, it's all just breathtakingly stylish to watch.

I've never really liked the whole gay best friend thing. I always got the sense it made an accessory out of one half, depending on context, but it could also be a bit of a crutch, in a way. The media portrayal like in SATC also always seemed to highlight the most toxic aspects of it and painted women and gay men as vain, petty, of little substance and then it got imitated in an even more grotesque fashion.

I don't know, it's tricky, I've always avoided befriending those that make one aspect of their identity (sexual orientation or otherwise) their entire personality as it just feels like voluntarily making your world so small. I get that the appeal is a sort of safety but to me it's always felt like sticking your head in the sand. But with raging culture wars and polarisation I'm also seeing a lot of people grasping onto it quite suddenly which definitely puts a strain on friendships.

Tom Ford fashion will always be 90s Gucci. Hard pash from me. I love that sleek glamour, and his Grey Vetiver is one of my favourite scents.

I loved A Single Man, Nocturnal Animals, not so much.

And yes @botemp I absolutely agree. You are younger and more grown up than me!

In the 'old days' it was difficult to be an outlier, we did group together, it's hard to put a different lense on and accept that maybe those friendships that felt necessary were transactional in their way.

Good points Bo. It must be tricky thinking about this Tatare. Coming to terms with the fact that you thought you were in the "difference" thing together while other people were centering themselves. :/ I've also disliked (with a small D, haven't been that invested) the gay best friend trope as it's portrayed in popular culture. Something about it becomes quite needy looking.

In other news, Youtube recommended me this video this morning Have looked at a few more of hers, and she is very French alright. No "do what you want", these are the rules! It's an interesting reminder of how the French style can be very prescriptive (we talked about this a lot on thread 1, and the OP then might have enjoyed this video!).

Ha, the layer upon layers of connotations is giving me flashbacks to the Olympics OC 🫣 I'm not sure I find all this archetype pieces as story tellers all that groundbreaking though. I can definitely see that many dress that way but it's not, to my mind anyhow, this secret essence to great French style.

Tatare, well you've got the long limbs and strong face to go with that 90s Gucci look. At the time, I was dealing with lots of teenage angst and a body with curves I had no idea what to do with that seemed incompatible with the whole look. I can appreciate it now, but I think I still have that knee jerking reaction of rejecting it before it rejects me to protect my poor bruised self.

I’m waiting for the next how to be expensive thread and then I’m posting her videos and bish bosh 😉

You're a regular agent of chaos, Bani, but as it's that thread, I'm all for the pandemonium.

(Speaking of chaos, anyone watching Kaos on Netflix? Tried an episode and a half but can't get into it, is it worth persevering?)

Came here to mention the new Phoebe Philo drop. I liked the trench and was all pleased, only €1200, that's surprising doable, I thought, then I clocked it was leather checked the price again, €12000 🫠

One of my kids rate Kaos, and also I think someone at work. Haven’t seen it myself but it’s hovering around as something to maybe watch. Unless I decide to just cancel Netflix because of their blurb on Lilja 4ever (“a young Ukrainian girl has to fend for herself when her mother dies and becomes a sex worker”). Fuck that!

In line with being an agent of chaos I just told my husband I think we should split. So I’m very bouleversée atm.

Oh I'm sorry to hear that bani, are you ok?
A bit inadequate but have some

Not seen Kaos, in fact since The Crown went off the rails I don't think I've watched it all and don't know why we persevere with it.

I don't think I've even had an email from Phoebe this time so maybe she's dumped me. Can't really blame her.

As for Tom Ford, never been much of a fan and I snoozed most of my way through A Single Man so I don't think I'll even bother with his other film whose name I've already forgotten.

I've also never had a male gay best friend but a couple of good mates who are lesbian have always rolled their eyes at that trope, and one observed that she'd never, ever come across a straight man who's best friends with a lesbian. Quite telling I think. But I'm sorry about your friend Tatare that's shit.

Oh, Bani, ma pauvre. I too feel virtual flowers are a bit paltry, but have some anyhow . If you're anything like me, offers of unmumsnetty hugs make your eye twitch, but take comfort in some if you like. Considering I was prepared to condemn MrFlo to beneath the patio for his topstitching aptitude, just say the word and I'll dust off my spade and start up the cement mixer 🕳️

I actually do know of some lesbian/straight male best friends, Flo, but I've never considered them a separate 'thing' iykwim.

Ah thanks Flo, a bit yes and no. Logically it’s for the best but the mundaness of it all feels shite. I’ll either be in here loads to distract myself or not at all ;)

Cross posted with you Bo, thank you! Today I’ll take the hugs, thanks ;)

Lesbians and straight men friends are just friends, that’s right. Not tropes!