Maybe a bit deep but...

[Lovethyself123]

Do you engage in style and beauty 'stuff' because you love yourself or because you don't like yourself.

Recently it occured to me that everything I buy from a style/beauty perspective is to change myself or because I feel bad about some particular thing about myself. I rarely buy something just because I love it or because it would make me feel good. Purchases this week:

• cream to hide red veins on side of nose;
• 5x pairs of jeans which might improve the appearance of my post baby pancake bum (will only keep good ones);
• anti ageing cream to deal with haggard face;
• dress which hides almost everything so I can throw it on and forget about my body.

Other things:

• self-flagellating by reading Mumsnet threads about what is dated

-looking at people I went to uni with online to compare how they've aged/see what they are wearing

Do you do/buy things because you want to make yourself feel good and you think 'you're worth it'?! If so, tell me how please ha. I love beauty stuff and I like to look nice but I'd like to come at it from a different angle.

Recently I met up with some old school friends I haven’t seen in thirty years or more. All of them were obsessed about who was ageing best, how thin they were etc etc. I found it really sad and off putting. The sort of things we worried about endlessly when teenagers were still uppermost in their minds.

I neither love nor despise myself. I engage in style and beauty because like being a woman and decorating my face and body is enjoyable and it involves creativity and the collection of pretty objects.

I’m middle aged and objectively not attractive. Its irrelevant to my enjoyment of clothes, accessories, skincare and makeup.

Everything I buy is to make me more comfortable- eg I have roseacea so the moisturiser and spf are to calm my skin, the wash I use feels lovely and makes me start the day happier. Everything I buy is along those lines

@Catnipcupcakes I’m pretty sure your ability to engage with and enjoy life makes you very attractive indeed.

Aah, thank you for that.

I wfh in a rural area of Scotland and what I think I was trying to trying to say was that clothes and makeup are really just lovely things that I enjoy owning and using as l never see anybody really to care about appearances.

Clothes (I make a lot of my own) and make up are at this point a kind of creative hobby that make me feel like a bit more engaged with the world when I haven’t seen anyone but DH for a few weeks!

OP I hope you’re enjoying this thread as much as I am.. it’s brilliant. So much warmth and creativity and good advice.

Absolutely! I suppose this thread has had the desired effect of telling me how other women are able to enjoy and care for themselves! I am planning to channel some of that energy.

Yes, agreed, that is sad. It's not a competition! And it's not as though being thin or wrinkle-free at 40, 50, 60 means you've "won at life". The years will change us and it's absolutely OK to manifest that.

That said, I think there's a middle ground, where women can play around with their appearance as and when it suits them. The Aztecs and whoever else painted their faces for battle - why shouldn't we put on mascara for the office?

But that doesn't mean your un-made-up face looks BAD. Just different.

We each have a fun budget too. Mine goes on clothes while my husband likes to save his up for buying art and photography stuff. I can say with confidence that no-one has ever said to him, 'Do you really need any more paintings?'
I really hate the way loving clothes is belittled by some (not my husband I hasten to add) as shallow and trivial compared to more manly pursuits.

(Funnily enough, I now have a vintage clothing collection, amassed over the last 50 years, that's probably worth more than all his cameras put together.)

I don't wear make up regularly or use 'skin care' except sun cream. In the past year I've been buying loads on Vinted. That's partly to address deficiencies, but not in me, in my wardrobe. I want to be confident I have a reasonable amount of clothes that match the weather, that are flattering and not too tatty - not having to stand and stare at my clothes in the morning thinking 'uurgh what can I wear'. But it's also a fun project, because it's all cheap enough that I can think 'ooh I love the look of that, let's buy it and see if it works'.

Reading your OP, it was only in the last week reading MN that I realised that 'pancake bum' was a thing people worried about. I have never EVER walked behind a woman in the street and thought 'ooh her bum's a bit flat'.

Me too 😉

I love clothes and makeup. I've been wearing makeup since around age 13 (including to school). I can honestly say that I've never truly felt comfortable in my skin, and even at my thinnest and most glamorous I was hung up about my looks. My mother was obsessed with people's looks - mine, people off the telly, friends - and I don't know if I'm ultra sensitive or something but her comments really wore me down. I wished I hadn't listened to her, but I think it's natural for a young person to believe what their mother is telling them about their thin hair, blackheaded dirty-looking skin, buck teeth and hefty legs. Looking back at photos though, I was a completely normal-looking young person. My image of myself has always held me back, although I'm slightly less self-conscious now.

I wish I was one of those people who couldn't give a shit about how they look. It must be so liberating.

@ageingdisgracefully I believe we all care about how we look (I care how I look for sure) but you are right that it's liberating to not care what others think about your appearance.

After I had my DD I lost myself a bit; my body shape changed during pregnancy and I didn't feel comfortable in any of my clothes. I wore what I could afford and that still fitted, and it didn't really matter how I looked. I gained weight during the pandemic, and then again in my second pregnancy, and generally looked awful - tired, overweight, unhappy (because I'd gone through some fairly traumatic times) and still wearing secondhand maternity wear even at a year postpartum.

About a year ago, having returned to work, I realised I needed to take better care of myself, and make the effort to present myself in a way that reflected who I was at work, and who I wanted to be. I've lost weight through eating proper balanced meals that nourish me; I've built up a small wardrobe that fits and I feel comfortable in at work, and I have a basic skincare routine that I can be consistent with. I really like doing my skincare routine in the evenings, it's just a few minutes where I can take care of myself because I'm worthy of having time and attention spent on me, and feeling nice in my skin is a valid priority. I'm not trying to conceal or hide anything, and I don't hate myself - I'm making feeling good about myself and my body a priority so I can demonstrate to my daughters that it's important to take care of yourself.

@ageingdisgracefully oh that’s so cruel that your mother would say those sort of things to you. I can’t imagine the mindset of trying to make your own child feel shit about themself.

We're all different and I think it's much more complicated than some people suggest.

Ultimately, we are all - men as well as women - presenting a version of us to others and, crucially, to ourselves. Someone who says 'I never wear makeup, it's a silly waste of time and I just wear the same trousers and a plain top every day' is making just as much of a statement about the way they look as someone who won't leave the house without false eyelashes, and they are deluded if they think otherwise. This applies to men's style and grooming too. A man who will only wear a cheap plain t-shirt and jeans every day is presenting an image of himself to others in exactly the same way as a man who wears clothes covered in designer logos.

I also think that the 'makeup is for insecure women and is anti-feminist' argument really falls down when you consider that women under regimes that ban makeup and beauty will frequently put themselves at great personal risk to continue using makeup etc. There are women in Afghanistan, for example, who run secret, underground illegal beauty salons. They're not risking their lives for that because they're insecure and hate the way they look. They're risking their lives because being able to have some control over your appearance and the way you present yourself to the world is a very, very basic human need.

There is a well-documented story about the liberation of a concentration camp in WW2 where crates of food and medicines had been delivered. Completely by mistake, among the food and medical supplies was a crate of lipsticks. The soldiers and aid workers were immediately annoyed by this, but the women prisoners - bear in mind that these women were starving, traumatised, bereaved and sick - immediately started going through the lipsticks and putting them on, genuinely delighted. To them, being able to put on some makeup was a way of making themselves feel that their humanity and dignity was being restored, just like being able to grow their shaved hair back. They were able to have some control over the way they presented themselves again. That wasn't about insecurity or worrying about what other people thought of them. It was about feeling like themselves again.

Yes to this from @LifeofBrienne :

Reading your OP, it was only in the last week reading MN that I realised that 'pancake bum' was a thing people worried about. I have never EVER walked behind a woman in the street and thought 'ooh her bum's a bit flat'.

I suspect I have this but do not care remotely enough to find out for sure. See also 'strawberry legs' and 'hip dips' 🙄It's all just made up rubbish.

I buy/wear clothes and makeup so that I look like I DESERVE to look.

If I buy crappy things then I feel like I'm short-changing myself.

I get a lot of enjoyment out of choosing how I look, and also a lot of enjoyment out of seeing other people in really great outfits. It's one of my favourite things about going into (e.g.) certain parts of London - so many fabulous outfits, on men and on women.