Is there any quality left?

[Tsukiko]

I have been searching for a couple of new jumpers and trousers for 3 months and not having any joy because I don't much like current shapes and also due to quality concerns.
I have always avoided buying cheap turnover fashion items, so used to purchase from the middle ground, but in recent years I notice the quality of these items has also plummeted, whilst the pricetags keep increasing.

I am willing to buy one or two higher priced items if I can guarantee quality, but such stores are not within my area or would take a heck of a lot of time to visit.

Is there any truly good cashmere out there now? I used to trust John Lewis, Poetry, etc but something has definitely changed. Wool trousers are all crazy trend shapes with clown legs or voluminous crotches, and I can't find anything suitable.

It is the wool I am bothered about most. The mid range (£200-£300) bracket such as White Co, Reiss and Whistles are not what they used to be, regardless the cost.

I kind of want to give up, just buy utilitarian stuff from Carrier Company but I know such masculine shapes don't suit me. I wish they did.

Any advice or tips regarding where to look would be fantastic. There's so much choice out there now but so much crap. Buying clothes used to be really simple. Even when you get used to a brand now it will do a sudden lurch and the sizing and quality will fly off!

I agree, but I think this idea many have of not paying over £5 for a teeshirt (or else you're being ripped off) stems from it. A friend of mine feels that he is sticking it to the man buying cheap merino. And it lasts him, I will give him that!

I think the turnover for men's clothes are often wildly different, though, and since less of it pours into the stores every fortnight it can often be of considerably higher quality than the women's version.

My DP finds knitwear in the most unlikely places, you only have to compare the quality of a woman's knit in Tesco for instance, with the men's offerings.

I think men's clothes tend to be a bit more classic and functional rather than fashion forward directional offerings we have in women's wear. Look at formal clothing - the variation in evening dresses compared to dinner suits.

@heyhohello I think that's an ungenerous interpretation of what I wrote, and rather neglects the much wider global disparities that make it feasible for almost everyone in first world to indulge in throwaway fashion. It's a finite planet, so I don't believe 'cheap cashmere for all' is a realistic or desirable goal any more than 'cheap chicken at every meal for all'.

I think there has been a decline in quality all round really, including house building, cars, food, clothes. We accelerated and took off!

True regarding men's clothes. My DP has only recently discovered how difficult it is to find a simple, functional item on an infinite scroll of over 200 'new in' at random women's online stores. We did an experiment where we searched for decent quality knits with regular sleeves and he saw the light. I dare say he previously thought I was prevaricating. He can generally hit the same couple of stores and come out satisfied with barely any fuss.

@OnlyCorrect, I don't buy cheap cashmere or throwaway fashion or cheap chicken or eat it in every meal either. I have one (inherited) cashmere cardigan that has a hole in the elbow which I wear with my pyjamas. I would get at least two meals from a chicken breast because I tend to eat more vegetables than most people.

I do, however, think too many of these criticisms of people's expectations and aspirations are taken from a very privileged position of being able to afford the most organic, most sustainable, most artisan and handmade, fair trade, rare and luxury items quite comfortably, thank you very much, so the experience of going without and being judged for it is just not there.

I think there has been a decline in quality all round really, including house building, cars, food, clothes. We accelerated and took off!

@Tsukiko, see I'm not sure about that either. There have been shoddily built houses throughout history. A lot of them however have fallen down or been demolished now. But Georgian builders used to build from copy books and some houses did actually fall down! Modern houses currently have to be very much more energy efficient than previously which I think is totally a move in the right direction. Ditto with electric cars.

And food wise when I think back to the rubbish that was considered totally acceptable in the 70s and 80s....Vesta Curry anyone? Smash mash? Bright green processed peas?

That's interesting, thanks. I suppose to my own eye modern housing is visually uninspiring and the tendency to place tiny windows into new builds bothers me. Cramming as many homes onto a site as possible, lax standards in many, etc.
I am watching new slums in the making in a town not far from here - the originals were destroyed in the 50's and replaced with small boxes now in severe decline. So many of those people found the new builds of the time to be soulless and missed their terraced rows. They were chuffed about the indoor plumbing though!

It does come back to economics, both personal and collective, you are right. Consternation over cashmere quality does indeed come from a position of privilege. It is vital to acknowledge that.

Or the 'pottage' cooked centuries ago? Kept going over the fire all week...

Well the past has no true romance, only reimagined with tinted specs. In many ways we are worse, and likewise better off.
I did enjoy my angel delight

Plenty of massive windows (sometimes triple glazed) in new builds. Bifold ones right across the back of the house. Light wells - the lot.

Mmm yes, Angel Delight. And those trifle kits from a box.

And we bought a brand new build when our DC was small. The sheer relief of having a safe environment for them to grow up in with a garden and drive and the building guarantee after living in a three story ramshackled Victorian terrace with the obligatory creepy cellar at the bottom of slippy brick stairs, near the centre of town was wonderful.

I think it is well known that contemporary public buildings are nowhere close to the build quality of times past, even disregarding style preferences. Although the reasons for this are manifold and would take too long to go into.

I think new build projects are like marmite; some good, some bad, and not everyone agrees on the particulars! It's ok.

Returning to the topic, I have just been reading about seams and finishing. I have a skirt purchased years ago from Nygardsana (sp?) with terrible seams and a puckered lining. I found mine in a sale but it was very expensive at retail.

I think things like this have made me lose faith in many higher end brands. I have found Toast quality to hold up well, despite my irritations with them as a company. Sadly their colours and cuts never suit me. APC used to make excellent clothes but the 'eastern bloc' vibe grates at me.

Another issue I have with mid range and British brands is that a lot of their offerings are extremely trend focused - balloon pants, wide sleeves, super high necks. It strikes me as rather non-utilitarian to only sell one style of trouser that 'coincidentally' matches current trends. Many of these brands claim to be timeless, but like the skinny jeans demise, the balloon leg will soon enough fall out of favour.

Fatface, as a mid range high street brand has hurtled downhill faster than a bowling ball at high speed. I used to get my cotton tees there until the necks started sagging after two washes.

I think one advantage of not throwing many clothes away is that you have in your collection many styles. Styles come and go in rotation so you can just dig something out to wear again after a few years. Having a good stock of clothes also means that you can wear each item less so it lasts longer (in years.) Plus there are always older items to wear for painting, gardening and any task where things might get spoilt.

So all this minimalist capsule wardrobe with a heavy hand in the editing and getting rid of things that 'no longer spark joy' in that current moment might have people at a disadvantage in this respect.

Equally if you really don't ever wear stuff and don't have adequate storage things such as shoes can literally rot. So best to donate.

There is a balance though.

"I think one advantage of not throwing many clothes away is that you have in your collection many styles. Styles come and go in rotation so you can just dig something out to wear again after a few years. Having a good stock of clothes also means that you can wear each item less so it lasts longer (in years.)"

I am fortunate in having the storage space and was thinking exactly this recently. My 25yo leather jacket as well as a 10 yr old wool suit (with wide legged trousers no less) have been getting a good airing lately. It helps if you remain the same size over the years!
I do tend to buy good quality fabrics and look after my clothes well. Because I can sew, I adjust clothes when I lose weight and let them out again if needed. I've changed necklines, sleeves, buttons, hems and added trim to individualise items. Thank you mum, for teaching me how to sew!

For me, I have a moderate amount of things that get worn and are very loved, but I struggle to update and find new things because I can't find the quality I prefer or don't like the styles available.

Someone earlier in the thread suggested I might be 'stopping myself' liking those styles, which strikes me as odd. I can't force myself to like something just because it is trending. I think there are no boundaries between stores nowadays, so a certain cut ends up in all of the shops, which makes it difficult if that isn't your preference.

Funnily enough I don't have issues with replacing summer clothes, which I find easier to negotiate. I have two brands that work well for me in summer and find it easy to just get on with it.

I suppose the main point of my OP is how the middle ground has suffered a severe drop in quality. I appreciate the posts that have acknowledged and contributed to that.

Someone earlier in the thread suggested I might be 'stopping myself' liking those styles, which strikes me as odd.
I'm not sure if you're thinking of my post?
I spoke about you feeling 'out of synch with current fashions' which I think you'd agree with?
I then said, 'I'm going to go a step further and ask whether this feeling might be colouring everything you see?' And the reason I asked was because you were dismissing websites such as Riseandfall which, as far as I can see, feature a lot of fairly classic stuff and isn't dominated by trends.

It was a question that's all. It doesn't matter to me if you reject the idea.

I do agree with you about middle range brands no longer offering value. If I buy new these days I'm increasingly inclined to either stretch myself occasionally to reach for a high end brand in the sales (although the likes of Margaret Howell seem to be increasing their prices still further so that might prove unrealistic) or alternatively stick to Uniqlo, M&S etc etc and, if I like something a lot, buy it twice so I've got a back up. I resent doing it though because it's giving additional business that I don't think they deserve.

Well, I've never really shopped in these 'mid range' stores. I suspect they've always been out of my price range never mind before prices increased. I have always considered the likes M & S and Next to be good. Younger trend lead fashion would be New Look (or Top Shop/ Miss Selfridge a few years ago). Cheap clothes would be from the market.

My clothes don't really wear terribly but then I've got a lot so do have a good rotation. I look at more expensive brands and pretty emulate the looks pretty easily - without shopping there.

I've not really noticed worse quality in recent years so maybe it is the wholly natural fibre cloths (no blends) that really suffer when cost cutting occurs. Or maybe the sector of the market I shop from has seen increased custom from those who can no longer afford true luxury so has had to cost cut less. Or maybe I just haven't been unfortunate enough to buy flimsier goods. I don't tend to buy exactly the same thing twice. It's just not that important to me.

Companies undoubtedly are having to cost cut probably to try to stay afloat in the current economic climate.

The quality drop is more noticeable in brands where in the past you'd have expected almost a lifetime's wear out of the clothes. They would not get much business if someone only bought once, and nowadays people don't want to pay much.

I do most of my clothes shopping in charity shops and the drop in quality in some brands is noticeable (looking at you in particular Boden).

Yes I saw an early Next tweed jacket in a charity shop recently and thought it was designer. The difference in weight alone tells you something has changed.

M&S's 'trophy' tweed blazer this autumn, modelled by Sienna Miller, did not, as I recall, contain a single fibre of wool.

I don't particularly blame them. They'd have to raise their prices substantially and they'll fear customers wouldn't / couldn't pay, and not without reason - I remember M&S getting their fingers burned with their 'Best of British' label a few years ago.

Next was great when it started but I've not been in a shop for about 10 years when I failed miserably to spend a gift card.

Jigsaw and Mint Velvet are others that seem to have a drop in quality.

Baukjen and Me+Em seem ok for quality but their clothes don't suit me. Brands like Massimo Dutti, Sezanne and Reiss have nice cuts but IMO aren't particularly good quality.

Some of the supermarket and budget clothes brands (matalan, peacocks) are actually quite good for the price.

Ah, Flo, I only had a vague recollection of the post, apologies for not looking closer at that. The site wouldn't load on my laptop but I glimpsed a wide sleeve and gave up
I always appreciate your posts.

Oh no worries, you sounded a bit stressed that night!

I've not bought from Riseandfall but they seem to have stuff like plain round or V-necks and straight sleeves - fingers crossed!

I'll also give another plug for John Smedley who are pricey but possibly within your budget, or if not, there's a sales website and I've picked up quite a bit second hand.

I like Jigsaw for knitwear, particularly in the sale, colours always seem to be good.

Genevieve Sweeney if it were in my price bracket.