Is there any quality left?

[Tsukiko]

I have been searching for a couple of new jumpers and trousers for 3 months and not having any joy because I don't much like current shapes and also due to quality concerns.
I have always avoided buying cheap turnover fashion items, so used to purchase from the middle ground, but in recent years I notice the quality of these items has also plummeted, whilst the pricetags keep increasing.

I am willing to buy one or two higher priced items if I can guarantee quality, but such stores are not within my area or would take a heck of a lot of time to visit.

Is there any truly good cashmere out there now? I used to trust John Lewis, Poetry, etc but something has definitely changed. Wool trousers are all crazy trend shapes with clown legs or voluminous crotches, and I can't find anything suitable.

It is the wool I am bothered about most. The mid range (£200-£300) bracket such as White Co, Reiss and Whistles are not what they used to be, regardless the cost.

I kind of want to give up, just buy utilitarian stuff from Carrier Company but I know such masculine shapes don't suit me. I wish they did.

Any advice or tips regarding where to look would be fantastic. There's so much choice out there now but so much crap. Buying clothes used to be really simple. Even when you get used to a brand now it will do a sudden lurch and the sizing and quality will fly off!

as for beautiful clothes being a comfort blanket for ageing women - well I'm going to assume we're talking at cross purposes.

@Floisme, hey, I'm not proud and stand by this. Society doesn't favour visibly ageing women. That kind of misogyny is not dead. Beautiful luxurious stuff, including clothes is a comfort blanket. I'm as guilty as anyone in this.

My head is turned by beautiful things. Isn't everyone's? It's a distraction from day to day the gloom about. I feel like I shop for a fantasy glamorous lifestyle sometimes with gorgeous dresses, beautifully packaged makeup when in truth non of it really matters. I only wear this stuff on special occasions (I need more occasions!) and hardly anyone sees the makeup in its packages.

If I didn't get it in the sale / inexpensively I would be more cross with myself. And this lesser quality business genuinely isn't my experience. My recent purchases of cords (last year and this) from M&S is testimony to that.

I can absolutely see why people by 'fast fashion', and many of them wear it out due to necessity. This myth that people bin clothes after a few wears lies solely in the set with more cash. I see a lot of women my age on social media wearing a new outfit daily, often with expensive surroundings/home behind her. She isn't struggling to clothes 3 kids in Primark, but this is excessive consumption and at a miserable quality regardless the pricetag. What baffles me is the many hundreds of thousands of similarly aged followers, cheering it all on. Yet gen z get blamed for Shein, etc..

I also don't think the system that perpetuates millions of women in third world countries having to work for peanuts in sweatshops is going to change any time soon. It won't help if a handful of us buy used clothing. What we need is to find a way to lift those women out of poverty. Until such undesirable conversations are had, this isn't going to solve itself. Most of us are literally locked into this system, whether it is via clothing or tech or white goods.

Personal choices are great, we must do our best, but there are much, much deeper issues beneath the surface. We are conditioned to consume from birth, with the ugly side of this coin hidden away out of sight in other countries, spilling waste across deserts that can be seen from space.

The Johnstons of Elgin sale starts this Saturday 25th and is usually online too.

cashmere and more

Maybe I see it differently but, to me, seeking out beauty is a human instinct. Some people find it in nature but I prefer a beautifully woven piece of tweed or linen and I don't regard that as frivolous (I know you didn't use that word) or fantasy.

Regarding M&S, I've had one great buy from them this year - a trenchcoat with a hood that I'd been looking for everywhere. So, as far as I'm concerned, they can do it when they choose to but generally they don't, although I think they've upped their game, style wise.

@Tsukiko, fashion is by it's very nature non sustainable. It capitalises on a desire for things based on appearance beyond pure functionality. It is manipulated by the industry to keep changing and evolving in order to keep alive the desire in people which sells clothes.

Not liking purely functional clothing styles hints at this as does being frustrated at the quality of clothes from retailers which pay more than a nod to current fashions.

Retailers will make money somehow. Truly timeless, expensive clothes, sold on quality can never be truly fashionable because the selling point of 'lasts forever' would be redundant. Expensive, truly fashionable luxury clothes', selling point is more on exclusivity and elitism hence the burning of excess stock. It could be worn once and then maybe auctioned. Mid range and high street will last for a middling amount of time (few years) will not be excessively fashion forward but quietly fashionable and truly fast fashion often lasts only a season (likes of Shein) but doesn't need to last any longer because it is a fashion fad.

And as long as there is wealth inequality between nations and individuals there exists shocking working practices. As long as monetary wealth along with all the trappings is seen as aspirational, wealth inequality will exist. If everyone bought second hand and it became the most desirable thing then the second hand market would explode and become more unaffordable.maybe people would start to fake aged clothes like they do furniture? (It happened with jeans).

As you say, there are indeed much deeper issues.

Maybe I see it differently but, to me, seeking out beauty is a human instinct. Some people find it in nature but I prefer a beautifully woven piece of tweed or linen and I don't regard that as frivolous (I know you didn't use that word) or fantasy.

But @Floisme we occasionally need to question instincts. A beautiful and valuable ring, for example, might have only been acquired through the exploitation of others. This is equally true of beautifully woven materials. Added to this seeking beauty (when not kept in check) can be a distraction which serves to allow us to disengage too much from the ugliness, injustice and inequality in the world which we could help alleviate.

But beauty can cheer us up and give us the strength to carry on so it's not all bad...

Some people find it in nature but I prefer a beautifully woven piece of tweed or linen and I don't regard that as frivolous (I know you didn't use that word) or fantasy.

@Floisme, even nature can become a commodity. Land acquisition, destination holidays. 'Appreciation of nature' becomes a lifestyle choice which is fought over with little regard for the people who genuinely have to make their livings amongst it.

Well yes, exploitation is one reason why I try and take care where and how I shop (whilst also trying not to guilt trip other shoppers). But put simply, I feel no guilt about enjoying beauty, and I don't disapprove of the instinct to seek out beautiful things, and especially not of women seeking beautiful things for their own enjoyment.

Anyway I'm conscious that the poor op really just asked for a few tips about brands, so that's my last word on the matter on this thread.

Excellent points @heyhohello thanks for contributing.

@Floisme I see what you mean, I have been reading a book recently about the nature of beauty, and some Japanese writings on the beauty of 'things'. That beauty is subjective, yet quite extra special when fashioned by the human hand, as well as the natural beauty which surrounds us, in life, and decay (wabi sabi, etc))
I am one of those who love craftsmanship, in the William Morris sense, yet I also understand that his choices and perceptions were the resultant feature of his privilege. Similarly to the pared back creativity of the Bloomsbury set. It has often been out of reach for the less educated or financially secure.
The irony being that this sought after craftsmanship has been removed from it's original source (the man in the village who crafted tough, wooden spoons), to outsourced corporate; knocked up cheaply overseas then sold back to us as an 'idea' or lifestyle signifier in the UK for exorbitant prices through stores such as Toast, White Co, etc.
'Simple' craftsmanship is now largely out of reach for those who can't pay for it, and have long ago lost the ability to fashion it themselves.

It's problematic, but should not stand in our way of appreciating beauty. To find beauty in everyday things....is part of the wonder of life.

The irony being that this sought after craftsmanship has been removed from it's original source (the man in the village who crafted tough, wooden spoons), to outsourced corporate; knocked up cheaply overseas then sold back to us as an 'idea' or lifestyle signifier in the UK for exorbitant prices through stores such as Toast, White Co, etc.
'Simple' craftsmanship is now largely out of reach for those who can't pay for it, and have long ago lost the ability to fashion it themselves.

It's problematic, but should not stand in our way of appreciating beauty. To find beauty in everyday things....is part of the wonder of life.

@Tsukiko, this is one reason I love 'grass roots' and 'street' fashion that is lead by ordinary individuals not brands or big designers. People who are not brand conscious wearing stuff collected from a variety of sources, old and new in ways which are surprising, reflecting their personality in some way and eye catching.

I do wonder what separates the prices between some brands in the UK.
Johnstons of Elgin can amount to almost £400 just for merino knitwear, not to mention cashmere.
Yet the Carrier Company sells homegrown knitwear, albeit lambswool at a fraction of the price. I imagine their business outfit is also much smaller.

What is it, exactly, that I would be paying for at JofE as opposed to Carrier Co?

I have been reading some comments in articles on the Guardian relating to fast fashion, and if you can get past most of the commenters claiming they have worn the same potato sack for 30 years and it still hasn't given out, it's a riveting discussion
It has me thinking about what 'mid range' now is.
Many people claim that even the higher ranges are not made as well as they used to be. This is worrying.

It might not be what you are looking for but I discovered buying wool knitwear from Irish companies earlier this autumn. I have some aran and donegal knits now, mostly from the Skellig Gift Store - not exactly trendy but great, quick delivery and quality knits I expect to wear for years. They do quite a lot of offers and the prices are better than the upmarket UK highstreet shops.

House of Bruar sells decent lambswool jumpers at a good price.

Many people claim that even the higher ranges are not made as well as they used to be. This is worrying.

@Tsukiko, I think it's due to the current economic climate. People are generally poorer and not buying. As a result 'luxury' is made less luxurious' because not enough people can afford it. The companies then make the item prices more affordable by cutting their own costs.

I was in a shopping selling wools/knitting stuff the other day and admired the beautiful jumpers they were also stocking. Harley was the brand, think the jumpers are made in Scotland from Scottish wool. Beautiful colours and designs - maybe have a look? I was sorely tempted but wasn’t wearing the right clothes to try on jumpers so will go back another time.

I had never heard of Carrier, but a quick check of their website showed that they are aiming for completely different markets, but with sustainability and quality at the core of what they manufacture. I like that JoE has a working mill where they weave and dye their material themselves; their colour range is astounding! But I only buy during their sales.

They used to have £10 and £15 baskets in their sale but now they have seconds baskets that are a treasure trove as the imperfections on some items are so slight and the sale price so good.

If I could afford it, I would not grudge paying full price for the quality of their goods and what the company stands for, as it's based in Scotland and employs local people. My coat (£250 originally in sale) is over 17 yrs old and over the years I've managed to build up a timeless collection of cardies/jumpers/scarves that still look good many years later. Blankets that I gave as family Christmas gifts 10 years ago are still being used today.

I don't work for JoE 😄 but their prices reflect their world renown brand quality. As one reviewer said "you get what you pay for".

Thank you all for the info. I suppose you could say that JofE make more sense than spending almost £300 on a cashmere from Reiss. If you couldn't afford JofE then you would be unlikely to visit Reiss either.
It is the Reiss/Whistles/WhiteCo area that looks like an astonishing rip off. A few years ago I took a chance on some cashmere form White Co and the quality was below par.

I was browsing the JofE site and the only thing that I currently love is a cardigan for just under £700. I will probably keep searching.

But merino is or should be a luxury, like cashmere. It's a symptom of our broken fashion system that most people expect to be able to afford a couple of new merino/cashmere jumpers every year.

But merino is or shouldbe a luxury, like cashmere. It's a symptom of our broken fashion system that most people expect to be able to afford a couple of new merino/cashmere jumpers every year.

yes yes, absolutely! We are conditioned to expect the price of merino via M&S and Uniqlo to sit at £30, perpetually.

It's a symptom of our broken fashion system that most people expect to be able to afford a couple of new merino/cashmere jumpers every year.

@OnlyCorrect
Or a symptom the wealth inequality in our country that means the majority of people cannot afford it? AKA 'poor people keep in your lane....'

And the low prices, coupled with the illusion of quality, masks the problem.

And the low prices, coupled with the illusion of quality, masks the problem.

@Tsukiko, or just makes people feel they can have a slice of luxury on a more modest income albeit not the indestructible last a lifetime, individually handmade, quality type...

Sort of like Thornton's chocolates versus Rococo.