'Edgy' older women...

[ProstituteHair]

Gah!

I know I'm about to start a thread I've started before but there have been a few comments in S&B this week about 'desperate' older women trying to look fashionable and 'I wouldn't listen to 60 year-olds', both comments to OPs who were favouring a fairly safe style of dress in their 30s and trying to shake it up a but feeling a little moribund.

There's absolutely fuck-all wrong with a safe and classic style in it pulls your chain. Really, I have no beef there. It can look incredible.

However, who's to say that the 30-year-old advisees know more about fasion than the 60 year-olds they were belittling. Some 60 year old have worked in the fashion industry for decades. Some 30 year olds have no care about fashion beyond looking respectable.

And that's ok.

But it's not age-based, and there's an absolute joy with older women and fashion, it can be much more unconstrained. It's certainly not desperate for older women to be edgy or fashionable, I'd argue that the truly edgy dressers are older women (or men).

And the young too.

There's space for both, I'm not sure why it has to be stratified along age lines.

People either love clothes and want to look incredible or they like clothes and want to look respectable, (or they think it's all complete bolloocks and just want to cover themselves appropriately for the weather, and that's ok too!!).

God didn't she!! Loved the catsuit she wore, stylish and eye catching.

"Ages you" in the sense that young people currently following fashion are wearing very plain neutral tones at the mo, yes.

Yes, that's what I meant! If a 60 year old is "still" wearing the same kind of clothes that she wore in her 20s it's not considered stylish. Because that kind of thing isn't trendy atm . Although there's lots of 80s style clothes in the shops atm!

Thing is as you get older you have had time to learn what shapes and colours suit you and are more likely to have disposable income to spend on clothes that you like. Over time, the mistakes get thrown away and replaced with better things.

I don't always get it right by a long way, but it's a lot easier to dress well now I'm in my fifties than when I was in my thirties, bought most of my clothes from supermarkets and catalogues and accessorised them with baby sick.

Gah, I actually feel a little opposite - I am only 42 but I feel like the older I get, the more like me I look and the more fun I have with clothes. If I had more time (fulltime job, small kids etc) I would get far more into fashion. Maybe in some years. I actually find ageing freeing.

I just put a dress into a charity shop pile because my friend said it "ages" me. I asked her what she meant, and she said, I dunno, just looks like something you would have worn when you were 25. I realised later that she wasn't even talking about the garment - she was talking about how I, personally, looked dated in it because it was a style I was keen in my 20s but now in my 40s I just look like I'm stuck in a rut. Sometimes it's just that; never updating how you dress can lead to feeling frumpy/dated etc but sadly it often comes out and sounds like ageism (that's not to say ageism doesn't exist here - of course it does, it's mumsnet)

Yes, it's a subtle form of ageism to insist that women should not take their age into account, when choosing clothes.

You don't get posters berating 20 somethings for wanting to dress appropriately for their age but, if someone over 40 dares talk about age-appropriate, you get a flurry of posts, telling them off for even thinking about it.

Of course, you can wear anything at any age, but the reality is that everyone's style evolves as they get older, and there is nothing wrong with that. How many 50-somethings do you see, dressed identically to their teenage daughters, or vice versa?

Wondering if the walker was the result of only having one shoe...

I think there’s definitely ageism, but also people mistake taking advice from a stylish 50 or 60 year-old with looking like one. I’m early 30s and I would be horrified if I looked 50 or 60, in the same way that a 19 year-old would be horrified to look like me. But this does not mean I should dismiss advice from that age group - absolutely not! The couple of times I’ve asked questions on S&B I received some very helpful responses from (I believe) older posters.

So I think there’s just some confusion (and a bit of ageism).

‘I wouldn't listen to 60 year-olds',

WTF 😂😂😂 Who said that?!

One of the strangest posts I've ever seen on MN.

‘You don't get posters berating 20 somethings for wanting to dress appropriately for their age but, if someone over 40 dares talk about age-appropriate, you get a flurry of posts, telling them off for even thinking about it.’

That’s because 20 year olds aren’t made to feel as if they should dress any other way than how they wish to. 30s - 40s women are.

I was in Munich city centre a few weeks ago. the only woman that looked any way fashionable among the sea of young women floating around was a very striking lady of about 75 years . She outshone them all!

Why compare? Who gives a shit anyway? Beauty is subjective, style is subjective.

I don't get this attitude either. I care not one iota about clothes and as a result have never looked stylish, even when I was in my 20s, and not now in my 30s. I don't understand why anyone would think that age has anything to do with it .

‘You don't get posters berating 20 somethings for wanting to dress appropriately for their age but, if someone over 40 dares talk about age-appropriate, you get a flurry of posts, telling them off for even thinking about it.’

That’s a really good point. I’ve often said on here that for the last decade or so (I’m 47) I haven’t wanted to wear short skirts. Nothing to do with my legs- I have great legs!- but because the look reminds me of being young and insecure and looking for male approval. And I feel now that I want to convey very clearly that that’s not me. That doesn’t mean that I think that wearing short skirts means you’re desperate for attention- just that that’s how it makes me feel, and it doesn’t work for my self-image or the image I want to project.

There are lots of older women celebs and in real life whose style I admire but I don't care about someone's age tbh if I like their style I couldn't give af how old they are.
I love neutral classic basics so I actually watch some of style vids made by younger girls. I like Lydia Tomlinson 28, it's not 100% my style but her ideas are very wearable and make sense to me.
I watched another girl (not Lydia) who mentioned something about not looking like a grandma, which I am and very happy and proud of the fact, so switched her straight off after I had given her the 👎
I also shop in All Saints and a good quarter of my wardrobe is from there whose target age group is 30 something. Not because I want to look younger it's simply because they sell my style of clothes in the fabrics I want.

I don't think there were specific threads but there were comments on threads about "pseud's corner" , "talking bollocks" etc which I guess were aimed at posters talking about the theory of clothes, style and fashion, rather than "what's on trend" now.

I've discovered some marvellous brands via MN - e.g Lanx, Joseph Cheaney, Palava, which I now own; Casey Casey and Egg which I don't yet but expect to soon and Renli Su, which unfortunately I'm unlikely to own as a L is a size 12.

The "what to wear threads" are interesting although I can't recall ever being unsure of what to wear where.

I'm not particularly interested in whether a garment suits me or flatters me. I don't know what my colours are. If I like the look of something and it fits I'll feel good wearing it. I don't care if someone is looking at (and complimenting) the garment rather than me.

There was a thread about "what makes you feel good when you wear it" - honestly, everything or I wouldn't have bought it.

What's odd about it? I like myself too- always have.

I never look 'desperate' simply because I'm not desperate. I feel confident and enjoy nice clothes in my fifties, but I certainly don't look classy or polished or any of those things, it's not my style. I love the idea of it but I just never could carry it off. My teenage girls give me great advice, and I also tell them what looks good (not what's in fashion as I don't know that)- I think we both help each other out. I know the look they are going for, I don't emulate it.

When we're young, there's a degree of tribalism about how we dress ourselves. It's about fitting in or else defining ourselves as being different to the crowd. With ages comes the combination of confidence and lacking of caring what others think that drives many women to experiment and dress completely for themselves. I also think that for many younger women, they're dressing for their peers, and others for men. Both things can really hinder someone not only developing their own style but also a sense of self. The two are undoubtably intrinsically linked.

I do feel that there is a great divide between those whom like to intellectualise fashion and enjoy it as an art and also as self-expression, and those whom just see clothes as functional things to wear.

Having worn contact lenses since my teens, now I'm nudging 50, have finally abandoned them for some Thierry Lasry frames (like the ones Joanna Czech wears) and suddenly, I look far more present, edgy almost, even though my clothes learn more towards classic with a twist. Silly I know, but this has been a almost a bold move for me, and I look forward to seeing how my personal style, along with my wardrobe will evolve over the next few decades..

The "what to wear threads" are interesting although I can't recall ever being unsure of what to wear where.

Ditto.

Sigh, fair enough. Glad you're happy with that.
This is the style and beauty board however, where people (generally) enjoy and have fun with clothes, or aim to.

I was a typical jeans and t-shirt type woman when my youngsters were children. When I hit my 40s, 50s, and now 60, I look better than ever. I don't look my age or act it. People generally take me for the late 40s.

I am a quirky dresser, love bold colours, and I go every 8 weeks to the hairdressers. I have long hair, which is dyed as I'm growing older disgracefully. My hair usually has a streak of an extreme colour in it.

I don't do mutton dressed as lamb. The wisdom of getting older can show in how you present yourself too.

Even my 5 year old grandson notices any colour change as slight as it may be.

Age is a number. I feel younger now than when I was in my 30s.

If you look back to what 60 yr old women were wearing in their 30s then you will understand how they maintain that edgy look. The power suit springs to mind. Punk was a real thing and many of my contemporaries trawled the newly invented charity shops, the old rag markets and jumble sales to find beautiful 1950s couture that was being thrown out during house clearances. I had some truly amazing dresses from the late 50s and early 60s. The colours and styles during the 80s were groundbreaking. The mini skirt reappeared. Jackets were beautifully tailored and in every colour under the sun. Makeup was vibrant and at times extreme even during the day. We were not afraid of creating individuality. So many of these women have no problem wearing what suits them rather than what is fashionable. This is what makes them stand out.
Wearing clothes that fit perfectly and flatter your figure is really important. Style is effortless if you follow those simple rules.

Re your post about the invisibility of disabled women I would have totally agreed with you until I opened this months Vogue.
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-65336437

That's interesting @notanicepersonapparently. I don't buy Vogue these days so hadn't seen this.

This is so true.

Obviously not all young women are ageist. But those that are have fallen into a trap that diminishes them as much as the women they disparage. It's basically saying that it's their youth that is valuable and not their skills, talents and personality. A sense of style can exist at any age.

Ageism is so misogynistic, as it's so often women that are told they're past it. Equally older women shouldn't be stereotyping younger women as knowing nothing.