Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

Ah now Plumo; I’ve been buying from Plumo for twenty odd years, since I was in my twenties. I’ve had some favourite pieces from there over the years. Always in the sale of course.

They’re great clothes, @VenusClapTrap - but as you indicate, the stand out pieces are surely just too expensive for the average (in terms of income) woman of the age the models appear to be. (I mean, shops don’t advertise with the strapline “Buy us in the sales!”)

For anyone unfamiliar with Plümo - the blue coat below is £700, the green jacket around £400. The trousers remind me of Toast, when it was good, and Toast has never been a Young Person’s shop.

The green jacket is on my sale watch list. I have noticed that there are a larger number of affordable items than usual this season though, which is interesting. I might have to have the Abito rose shift dress, which is not expensive.

Does Plumo discount a lot? TBH I'm amazed how some brands are still standing and how many are now pricing themselves into high end designer prices with not very original designs, the balance is really off. It's a little bit more basic but Olive Clothing has a similar feel but is more suitably priced to a younger crowd (as is the sizing, a lot is just one size). And if you want to go a little more into that 'deconstructed' unravelling look there's an interesting made to order Etsy shop operating out of Ukraine Kinzzza at around half of Plumo prices for more original pieces, but that washed up crumpled look has to be your thing.

WRT deconstructed clothes though, and why I'm getting a little nervous of people suddenly jumping on it like a trend, is that it's really hard to get right. I'm not talking about how to wear it, that can be an extra challenge though, but it's one of those deceptively simple things that are not, the people that design and make it need to be able to do the polar opposite like bespoke tailoring or couture to do the opposite. A you need to know the rules to break them kind of situation.

A lot of what I see being sold as deconstructed is just sort of banging things together to look interesting with a lot of distressing involved (distressing is another art form), there's no thought or methodology behind it and it feels empty. Maison Margiela's Artisanal collection are some of the best examples of skilled haute couture as far as I'm concerned even if it's not the first thing we think of impeccability (or haute couture) in all it's deconstructed unravelling, but it is absolutely impeccable and imbued with though and consideration every step of the way.

I have to say I've only seen 40+ wearing Sahara London. I am 40+ myself. Also whilst not the bdesigner label prices some of the items on here is Sahara is not the cheapest of brands so I think cuts out many of the primary school mums.

Do love their cut of clothing though some of my favourite pieces are from Sahara London.

Maison Margiela's Artisanal collection are some of the best examples of skilled haute couture

Yes.

@CrkdLttrCrkdLttr , the plumo trousers make me think of Agnes B a few decades ago, but the styling is Toast-y

Egg is beautiful.

Indeed, @NatashaDancing! I’ve just always been curious about who they see as their target market - if that’s anyone not living within five minutes walk of Kinnerton St. (I doubt it includes me!)

I have a friend who lives literally around the corner from an Agnes B shop in France. She buys almost all her clothes there - it’s like popping out for milk. I’ve always imagined it must be the same for the residents of Egg’s bit of Knightsbridge.

I have a friend who lives literally around the corner from an Agnes B shop in France. She buys almost all her clothes there

I had a neighbour who was exactly the same.

Have you seen the Egg videos on their website?

Egg customers live in some sort of combination/mash up of Brideshead Revisited/Les Grand Meaulnes/Merchant Ivory/ Jane Austen/Manon des Sources/ Maurice Pagnol world.

They are beautiful.

I have added Nackiye to my Home Screen … 🙏🏽

Oska Ischiko don't get much of a mention on here. To my mind, their stuff is nicer than Toast's, both in style and quality.

I am a fan of Oska too @NatashaDancing (eBay and charity shops at my budget). Excellent weighty linen.

Enheduanna, I can't remember where I read it so I can't quote it exactly but the statisitic was something like until very recently 97% made their own clothes and 3% had it made/bought something ready made, now those numbers are pretty much inversed. (I suspect this was not a global number).

I must admit I did have a near heart attack at the thought of pulling apart a Vionnet and Dior, you're a braver woman than me , but you obviously learn a lot, I enjoy fashion exhibits the most when they sort of dissect the construction, by replica or x-ray, or toiles (I recently visited a Balenciaga exhibit, they used black shiny cotton for toiles, it was so interesting), there's so much hidden away in the details.

Sewing has an interesting history, especially how it split male/female with tailors and mantua makers, respectively. It's never been quite clear to me where that came together or when exactly everyone started abandoning making in their own clothes. I have always wondered how much knowledge did the average home sewer have, it was probably just passed down and some additional magazines and books probably came in at some point. My grandmother's grandfather was a tailor so she knows how things should look and will tut tut at bad finishings, but has no idea how to make it, normal sewing she can do though.

I’m another who knows how things should look but has no practical skill.

But I do have clothes, (neither vintage nor couture) boasting weighted hems and beautifully crafted boned bodices - and that level of craftsmanship can be found in unexpected places. I’ve been mildly astonished at the amount of love Marques Almeida expended on the fabric and construction of a lined wool bustier dress, or MSGM on a broderie anglaise blouse so painstakingly put together, inside and out, that I can’t see it ever falling apart, though I’ve worn and washed and ironed it countless times over several years. Neither brand markets itself as ‘producing long lasting items of high quality suitable for picky middle aged women’ - but they do.

Soz but some of these clothes look like stuff Jesus’ disciples would wear.

Well maybe, @NetballMumGrrr ! I couldn’t offer an informed opinion on that. But this is the question I’m asking here:

how … people come to choose their clothes, and how brands intervene to shape our choices

I’d love to have your thoughts on your own experience.

This is often the issue- beautifully made, high quality clothes they may be. But they would make me not feel like myself. I also don't live that lifestyle. And (at the risk of being accused of ageism) I don't want to dress 10 years older than I actually am.

I wish my job involved being sent off to dye wool (although, how smelly is it?).

I'm similar, clothes need to come and find me. I find looking for something very specific that matches an idea in your head the most joyless type of shopping (my brain, unfortunately, still insists on it sometimes). It puts a lot of pressure on the item when you find it (or is it really it?). I mean, I'm always looking, absolutely not a monagamist when it comes to clothes/fashion. And I'm also quite happy to admire things and acknowledge they're not for me, and sometimes not even for anyone.

I suppose this also makes you a bit immune to standard marketing as your approach is different, you're not necessarily looking to join some tribe of Brora women, delusional as it may be there's definitely an undercurrent of I'm too cool for whatever's recognisable. I just sort of assume that type of marketing isn't directed at me as I don't really need much incentive to buy (I just need to like it and get excited by it) where most people buy out of some need or some sort of fabricated incentive like belonging.

Wonderful thread OP, thank you. My current obsession is Klements, a London micro-label. Charlotte Allen is a fabric designer and makes dresses and separates, usually in very limited numbers. Her fabric designs are a wonderful mix of ethereal and trippy, well worth a look.