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Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

1000 replies

CrkdLttrCrkdLttr · 28/02/2023 13:33

Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

OP posts:
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Enheduanna1 · 11/03/2023 13:27

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thedevilinablackdress · 11/03/2023 14:09

Ah, shoes. How I miss the 'old' high street for this. I really hate buying shoes online (hence the 2 year swithering on a pair of Solovairs). I live in a city with allegedly decent shopping, but footwear-wise it's more or less trainers or nothing. Shed a small year when Camper shut. I'm not averse to trainers, but they're not the only shoes I want to wear!

MerryChristmasToYou · 11/03/2023 14:38

@thedevilinablackdress , I didn't know Camper had shut. They are still available on-line.

I have several pairs of Solovairs, and the sizing is a bit haphazard. I'd say that the very obviously women's shoes like Mary Janes tend to be true to size, and the unisex ones a half-size or full size bigger.
I don't know if it is coincidence, but the quality of the ones I got via Toast doesn't seem to be as high as the ones I bought directly.

thedevilinablackdress · 11/03/2023 14:42

@MerryChristmasToYou just the physical Camper store in my city that closed. I want to try shoes on, even when they're a brand I've bought from before - see your comment re. haphazard sizing, happens in many brands.

MollyVolley · 11/03/2023 14:54

I splurged on a pair of Nomasei @StephenDedalus possibly the ones in the right photo they tied at the back of foot. They are gorgeous and comfortable but my god i spent the whole evening the only time I wore them re-tying them. They were a lot for me to spend and am not sure if they were worth it from the PITA trying to keep them on

StephenDedalus · 11/03/2023 16:13

Oh that's interesting @MollyVolley thanks for the post. Were they true to size?

VenusClapTrap · 11/03/2023 16:26

StephenDedalus I love the shoes in the second photo.

I am not hugely shoe-driven but I like to wear something a bit unusual. Many years ago I discovered Danish clog boots - through Plumo, I think, and I’ve been wearing them ever since. I love clomping around in them in winter, they are warm, comfortable and have an uncompromising aesthetic. They work equally well with smart clothes and with jeans.

Recently they have become rather fashionable, which means they are easier to get hold of - no longer restricted to Lotta from Stockholm’s seasonal selections, but it also means they are no longer all that unusual, which of course annoys me slightly because I want to shout “I’ve been wearing these for over a decade!”

Sadly at the moment I have an Achilles tendon problem, and can’t wear my clogs without pain. I’m shuffling round in tightly laced hiking boots <weeps>

VenusClapTrap · 11/03/2023 17:41

Bag-wise, I’ve just ordered this little cute bag from Toast for my holidays. I’ve been after a small go-with-everything cross body bag for some time, and I think this just might fit the bill. Now I just need some quality Achilles-friendly leather sandals. Any suggestions?

Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?
AdventFridgeOfShame · 11/03/2023 18:19

@VenusClapTrap I also have or rather had clog boots from Plumo. I'm sure they went to Uni with DSD. They are great fun. I have had several pairs of boots via Toast.

As for sandals check out Fitflops. I picked these up in the sales or try the ultimate clog wearer's sandal.

MerryChristmasToYou · 11/03/2023 18:29

@MollyVolley , thanks for posting that about the ribbon. Could you get a concealed strap fitted? The sandals are beautiful.

@thedevilinablackdress , you are right, far too many bones in the foot to wear ill-fitting shoes.

MerryChristmasToYou · 11/03/2023 18:49

@VenusClapTrap , the Lookbook page for Francli looks intriguing.
www.francli.co.uk/the-oddments-collection

CrunchyCarrot · 12/03/2023 08:54

Soooo... I have encountered a small problem with my lovely new Primavera dress. It has a strong chemical smell. I thought, a couple of days airing will fix that. Nope. So today I tried a cold wash with a small amount of natural lavender detergent - didn't work. Then I tried a cold wash with vinegar added. No, smell still there. Right now I am soaking it in cold water and baking soda. I really hope that will do the trick!

VenusClapTrap · 12/03/2023 09:01

Advent I had some Fitflops years ago and must admit they were very comfy. I’d forgotten about them actually. I might have a browse

CrkdLttrCrkdLttr · 12/03/2023 09:23

Oh no, @CrunchyCarrot - how strange and frustrating. As you clearly didn’t want to return it I would probably contact Plümo (?) and ask what has caused the problem. And how it might be fixed.

It has such beautiful strong colours, too. I hope they survive an entire season’s worth of washing all at once.

OP posts:
CrunchyCarrot · 12/03/2023 09:36

CrkdLttrCrkdLttr · 12/03/2023 09:23

Oh no, @CrunchyCarrot - how strange and frustrating. As you clearly didn’t want to return it I would probably contact Plümo (?) and ask what has caused the problem. And how it might be fixed.

It has such beautiful strong colours, too. I hope they survive an entire season’s worth of washing all at once.

A bit of Googling reveals it could easily be formaldehyde. Might require an overnight soak in baking soda. I just gave it 3/4 hr and am putting it through another cold rinse with vinegar, will see how it is after that. Clearly can't be returned after all that washing!

Am determined to get that smell out! Formaldehyde can be used by clothes manufacturers to prevent mould, improve colour-fastness, that sort of thing. Sigh. So far colours look OK. Probably will survive as long as I keep the wash cold/cool.

CrkdLttrCrkdLttr · 12/03/2023 09:47

Clearly can't be returned after all that washing!

Not necessarily. Things are supposed to be fit for purpose. They didn’t warn you that it would have an overwhelmingly strong smell that would make it unwearable. It’s their responsibility to rectify the situation.

Phone them. If you can bear it, emphasise that you are housebound and returning online orders is impossible / unfeasible for you. Honestly, I would think a partial refund would be fair.

OP posts:
CrunchyCarrot · 12/03/2023 09:53

Yes I think I will have to phone them tomorrow. A further vinegar wash hasn't done the trick, it's now line-drying in a strong breeze, but don't think that'll do much.

VenusClapTrap · 12/03/2023 10:35

That’s really disappointing, Crunchy, and putting me off ordering the Abito Rose dress that I’m really hankering after.

CrunchyCarrot · 12/03/2023 10:40

VenusClapTrap · 12/03/2023 10:35

That’s really disappointing, Crunchy, and putting me off ordering the Abito Rose dress that I’m really hankering after.

I was thinking about you and that dress - probably a good idea not to buy it, could be a similar situation. I'll see what they have to say for themselves tomorrow.

Enheduanna1 · 12/03/2023 10:43

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CrunchyCarrot · 12/03/2023 10:48

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Yes have been reading just that, it's pretty scary really.

Another slightly related tale from some years ago. I bought a gorgeous thick cotton poncho from Loud Elephant. When I first put it on, it set me off sneezing - couldn't stop. I do suffer from allergies anyway so I took it off and gave it a cold wash. After line drying, I never had any further problem (am wearing it now!). It didn't have a smell, but certainly something (maybe dust?) set off the nose!

www.loudelephant.com/collections/ponchos

They are gorgeous, but do wash them before use!

botemp · 12/03/2023 10:50

How annoying about the smell, tell them MN will be watching their customer service performance 🧐

Venus, a pricier suggestion, Ancient Greek Sandals do a comfort bed line (or called something like that). I don't know if it's good enough to support actual foot problems but they have some interesting designs among those that don't overtly scream specialty foot problem shoe.

Whoever asked about Nomasei, I somehow ended up on their mailing list when they launched and while I like how they're developing and keep meaning to stop by their showroom in Paris (and then forgetting when I'm there), my main issue with them is fairly well illustrated in the pictures posted, the models never seem to fit the shoes, they either squish them into too small shoes and the model's feet are narrow enough to do that for the picture or they're way too big, so unless I'm fitting them in person I'm rather suspect of them fitting properly and since the other poster had issues with keeping them tied I feel my suspicions weren't wrong.

Hmm, 🤔 about my shoes and bags, well I still think it's terribly boring to list it all but brands like Rick Owens, Margiela, Jil Sander, Loewe, The Row, Chloé, Marni, Givenchy, etc. My longest ongoing love affair is probably with Acne Studios, footwear and bags (and clothes and other accessories) but more so footwear, especially in the 00s, I loved the shoe designer they had then, it was very experimental (Avant Garde if you want) with litteral nails as a heel, etc. They moved onto &Other Stories when that launched but is obviously not there anymore, but I've yet to figure out where they went next. I like a shoe with personality and interesting architectural/sculptural details but not the irregular choice kind of personality and I never liked the Louboutin/Jimmy Choo era of look at my expensive shoes.

I tend to like footwear that everyone hates at first and then sort of change their mind on, like the Isabel Marant Wedge trainers. I don't actually own actual shoes, though, in the brogues, moccasin, typology, high arches and these just don't seem to mix well. It's lots of boots, mules (major weakness for the mules, I'm talking about flat-ish half covered shoes here as this term gets used for different shoe types), sandals/slippers, small selection of heels and I may have some ballerinas gathering dust. And since I own a lot of footwear hardly any of it actually dies, so I've got some Prada slingbacks that they've now brought back on the runway at Miu Miu in the back of my closet, ready for the spring weather.

I'm not anti trainers, but I tend to buy designer versions as they fit more shoe like and work better for me somehow, trainer brands are often too wide or the arch support is in the wrong place for me.

WRT bags I had a real Céline and Givenchy habit back in the day but feel the quality of the big designer bags has gone down drastically while the prices have steadily climbed to ridiculous numbers (Céline and Givenchy have stayed fairly consistent and bucked the trend here though but design wise not all that exciting anymore), so these days I tend to look at smaller contemporary brands, Danse Lente, Osoi, Aesther Ekme, I have the most impractical bag from Rokh that I adore, Venczel, Yvonne Koné, Building Block, Matter Matters, etc. They tend to be Asian or Scandinavian designers.

I realise I've never answered on how I decide what I need/get dressed either because much like OP, I was a bit ehm how do I explain that, despite having the ability to overanalyse fashion to death I've not done it much about my own process in front of the mirror effing about. But the accessories probably ties into it a lot, was it Venus with the settling for the lesser Baukjen trousers due to shape? I think we all feel we have a limitation of sorts and paint a grass is greener idea.

My main focus when deciding how to get dressed and what I want to buy has to do with silhouette, and it's probably why I monitor fashion so closely as this constantly shifts. But I'm on the short side and a classic hourglass, I should not be allowed to complain, it's a lovely body that many would love to have but it's not a body that the fashion industry love.

But if you're attracted to the impact of a silhouette it's difficult to pull off when you're not tall and fairly straight, the not straight thing is relatively easy to overcome, but some things are just off the table but the right boot with a distinctive design and a bit of a hidden platform that seamlessly merges onto my legs as if it were one with my tights gives me the longer legs I need to pull off a bigger silhouette.

Bags help, too, a really structured geometric bag stops me looking like I drown in an oversized squishy coat, cuts through like a bit of lemon juice can in something overly greasy. So that's probably why I go more all out and forward here, I've never really liked the flashy accessories with basic clothes look like they're trinkets for me it's really the things that pull it all together and finish out the silhouette.

I do like the look of Loewe bags and they really should have a customer in me but they don't serve that function of finish for me, they're more trinket-like when I've played around with them in the shop.

Enheduanna1 · 12/03/2023 11:00

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request.

CrunchyCarrot · 12/03/2023 11:04

@Enheduanna Yes, quite so. My DP's first remark on seeing the dress was 'that smells!'

I suffer from allergies and autoimmunity so breathing that in is a bad idea.

NatashaDancing · 12/03/2023 11:22

CrunchyCarrot · 12/03/2023 09:53

Yes I think I will have to phone them tomorrow. A further vinegar wash hasn't done the trick, it's now line-drying in a strong breeze, but don't think that'll do much.

www.cottonique.com/en-gb/blogs/articles/3-effective-ways-to-remove-formaldehyde-in-clothing#:~:text=Baking%20soda%20reduces%20odor%20and,cold%20water%20then%20air%20dry.

This site suggests baking soda in the water and soaking it for 8 hours.

It's an American site and I'm not sure if "baking soda" is the US equivalent of baking powder or bicarbonate of soda.

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