Do you miss the way we used to dress before everything became so informal?

[strawberrydress]

I was at work today and thinking how much dress codes have changed. Even just five years ago I was wearing pencil skirts, blouse and heels to the office and that was a totally normal outfit. I feel like if I wore that now everyone would think it was really weird! Today I saw people wearing trainers, jeans, t-shirts. I don’t remember the last time I saw a man in a tie. Everyone was so casual.

I feel I notice the same thing everywhere - people don’t seem to dress up for things which used to be seen as quite formal events like going to the theatre or out for dinner.

I used to really enjoy clothes and thinking about what to wear but it doesn’t seem to be as much fun anymore and there aren’t many opportunities to wear nice things without looking out of place. Does anyone feel the same or is it just me?

It would be nice to wear heels again as I have loads of lovely, not too high, chunky leather shoes and boots but I feel so tall and conspicuous in them now, and like I'm purposely trying to get attention.

This. I’m 5ft 10 and whilst not really tall, in mist block heels I’m about 6ft and I always feel like I’m sticking out.

In my teens and 20s my friends were the same height and you’d get comments from blokes in bars such as ‘oh the netball team has come in’ and it used to make us self conscious so we started crouching and slumping a bit in photos, then just wearing flats.

I’ve a gorgeous pair of black suede block heeled knee high boots I want to wear but too self conscious to!

I remember the days of going to catering show events where various suppliers would have stands with samples etc. The poor women who were reps had to stand in heals all day... I remember one woman saying they'd bring 3 pairs to change throughout the day when one pair got too uncomfortable. Meanwhile the men could obviously wear comfortable flat shoes.

I know what you mean by dressing up though in nice clothes though. It's nice to see professionals in smart clothing as opposed to casual wear.

It's obviously a different world down there

I've only seen the flesh coloured leggings / crop top look in the last 12 months - and thankfully rarely !

I still like getting dressed up to go to a party.

Shoes / heels were a big deal in the Sex And The City days. And handbags. And nice clothes, in general. I’m loving what Carrie’s wearing now. More women go for comfort, with age, I think. I wouldn’t go to as much effort as I used to...

Also think that younger women wear more comfortable clothes now (hello elastane!). We had to fit into the jeans, not the other way around, back then... It’s cheaper to manufacture less-fitted clothes, too. They just don’t look that good nowadays.

Flesh coloured crop tops are whole other thing...

I think there's also a pricing issue. In the early 80s, I could get a beautifully made, seam finished dress from M&S for £35.00. I was paying about £80 for a nice work dress from Austin Reed/Liberty, etc. A Jaeger jacket was about £140, and a tailored skirt £70/80. Nicer dresses I'd pay £140ish. A coat £250. All that classic stuff lasted and lasted. What it would cost now I can't imagine. With a change in sector, I don't need to. Except for brief period in the early 90s I have always thought M&S's formal wear was badly made and used nasty fabrics.

A good example iof price creep (or perhaps it's age - I recall my grandmother shying away from prices in the 70s) is the classic Feragamo Vara shoe. I remember paying about £95 to £125 in the late 80s/early 90s. I needed a particular colour in the very early autumn to match my outfit for my son's wedding and the winter stock was not in across the piece. I paid £450(ish) for that shoe because I needed a burgundy colour. The new stock, exactly the same shoe, is now priced at £635!!! I wouldn't dream of having a row of them nowadays - even at £450. Having said that I quickly put down a shearling lined Birkie for £180 the other day.

We have a dress code for work so no jeans or trainers for me.
I remember in the 90s having to wear court shoes for work and in a set colour. I found it a pain in the backside trying to find anything comfortable on my meagre wage. My most recent work shoes have been flat, comfort ones. They look fine and are far better than a court shoe. I always dress up for the theatre or dinner. I don’t like the grey tracksuit look. Fine if you are out walking/gardening/cleaning/exercising but to go to an event dressed like that, no it’s not appropriate to me.
I always chuckle when parents get het up about teacher’s clothing when you look at the state of most of the parents. When I worked in a school the dress code became ridiculous for staff to the point of no sandals even in the height if summer. I’d be happy for that type of dress code to go.

@Penguinsaregreat interesting point about dress codes for teachers. My four year old had to wear a collar and tie. Closed in T Bar sandals were allowed. That was ridiculous when it was 75° plus but not nearly as ridiculous as grown, post graduate qualified staff, attending work in flip flops, shorts and spaghetti strap sun dresses when 4 year old children had to wear a collar and tie.

The parents complained vociferously hoping the uniform for the infants would be relaxed. But no the dress code for teachers was reinforced. When the men teachers took off their ties due to the heat, so could the four year olds.

why do posters feel the need to sneer at high heel wearers?

I think because fashion, and acceptable dress codes are entirely subjective and heavily influenced by what everyone else does. If the majority of women decide that smart dressing must involve heels again, we’ll all be under more pressure to conform to that, and many women dread the thought because heels are so bloody uncomfortable. It’s all very well to say “but nobody has to wear them, nobody has to be dictated to by fashion”. But while I think we have made some progress in recognising that being a slave to fashion is a choice, and unsustainable, and just feeding the pockets of people who don’t deserve it, we aren’t there yet. Remember when we thought we’d won the other arguments about sexism and misogyny, and took our eyes off the ball? And then realised it was all still there but worse than ever? I think a very similar logic applies to fashion and in particular shoes that actively damage our health, and we need to spend a bit more time collectively rejecting that before it genuinely becomes a choice.

TLDR women get angry when other women support the status quo of the only acceptable shoes being the ones that you can’t move in, that leave you in pain and that damage your feet forever. Because until they disappear completely, we don’t know we’ll never have to put up with them again.

I'm afraid I'm being very inconsistent on this thread. One minute I'm full of sympathy because I know only too well that unspoken pressure to fit in with everyone else. But the next minute I'm thinking, 'fucks sake, just wear your nice clothes, what's stopping you?'

Nor do I believe in a feminist shoe epiphany. I think heels - or at least that very high n' spiky variety - have just fallen out of fashion. I will wager good money that they'll come around again at some point, and also that when they do, women will be back telling me they look much better. Incidentally the reason I don't wear them has little to do with my feminist principles - I just don't like them.

I love pretty shoes. They just don't need high heels to be pretty. I am very happy to say that I think Docs and Birkenstoks and FitFlops too are ugly and horrid and the first two shred feet. I don't own a pair of trainers, my lace ups are quite dainty.

I’m the opposite, I like Birkenstocks, Docs etc but don’t like pretty shoes. Heels can look nice as long as they’re not too high but I don’t like bows, flowers, any other embellishments which so many flats seem to come with. I really dislike those Irregular Choice shoes.

I’m not keen on trainers outside the gym and as I have narrow feet find a lot of places don’t cater for me - Clark’s, M n S etc even in non wide range are too big
I rarely wear heels but do like a glam shoe and have numerous pairs of this type of thing

It’s all down to personal taste, I think those shoes pictured are hideous and I wouldn’t say flat pointed shoes are particularly healthy for your feet either.

I'm with you @JaceLancs

I don't miss very narrow definitions of acceptable workwear, but do dislike the spread of very casual attire everywhere.

It's possible to look lovely and show your personality in a range of more informal styles, but it seems like the overton window has shifted where casual now is gymwear, leggings as trousers, athleisure and what I'd probably consider loungewear. I've been told I look dressed up at playgroup wearing comfy wide leg trousers and an oversized jumper. It was very much a casual outfit.

Haven't RTFT, but funnily enough, DD (17) and I were looking at some old family photos recently and she commented on how well-dressed people were then - these were just casual snaps, not formal portraits. She thought the women looked stylish in their suits and hats back in the 1940's and 50's.

An older relative also told DD that her own mother would always put on a hat and lipstick just to go to the local grocer's - I can't imagine putting on a hat to go to the supermarket.😂

I can remember in the 90s when some women would wear suits to the office. I was never that smart. Having said that I'm a bit old school and still like to wear smart trousers and a blouse or a nice top.

People in my office wear jeans and I wouldn't feel like working if I wore those. I would be too relaxed.

I went to a wedding yesterday , lots of people were staying over . After the wedding breakfast and disco many people were getting changed into flats and even changing outfits into more comfy clothes. I couldn't wait to put my joggers on when I went to bed!! I think being comfy trumps being uncomfortable it's nice to get dressed up but I don't want to spend 12 hours in stuffy clothes nor would I wear heels to work. What's the point??

Not at all - I used to have to dress very smartly for work, and I suppose it was fun at the time (events, in my twenties), but overall I do prefer comfort. In my current line of work I am able to dress extremely casually and comfortably (to the point where I buy nice cover up type items to make myself feel slightly more stylish). I love to be comfortable though. I've made a new rule for myself when buying clothes that no item can leave a mark on my body (including bras) and if I buy something that does I get rid of it. It's incredibly liberating.

@LadyVictoriaSponge exactly - I’m glad we all have different tastes
I will disagree about them not being good for healthy feet though - as they are good for my feet because they fit properly

Carrie wears these Terry de Havilland beauties in ‘And Just Like That’. They are called ‘Lena Non-stop Disco’! She’s certainly wearing more low heels in the series, though.

terrydehavilland.com/sex-and-the-city-tdh-style/

The post-covid heel resurgence begins…maybe. I don’t wear them that often but I love them. Shoes can be an exclamation point to an outfit, they are fun. It doesn't mean that the wearer is a traitor to women or an instrument of the patriarchy. I don’t care what other women wear on their feet, each to her own. I wouldn’t join a thread discussing a widespread change in clothing styles to stick the boot into women wearing flat shoes and call them ‘silly’ or ‘weird’ or ‘outdated’. I might think that some women’s choices are unattractive by my standards - I dislike spongy flatform shoes, for example - but so what?

Agreed, heels will be back all right! The younger women will want to look different to their mothers’ generation. They will reject the ubiquitous ‘trainers with a long dress and a denim jacket’and ‘trainers with skinny jeans and a baggy top’ look. Of course they will. That’s what young people do. Heels are already back where I live (Manchester). The move towards Y2K fashion for the teens and young twentysomethings is surely all about embracing glamour and reviving shapes that we haven’t seen for a while. And shocking their mothers, of course (“you’ll ruin your feet!”)

The correct response to the ‘netball team’ thing is breaking into a chorus of ‘we welcome you to munchkin land, tra La La La La La’. Tell your daughters!