Real leather boots - does the high street not sell them anymore?

[SnowyQueen]

I want a new pair of leather ankle boots (not suede). It seems that most shops just sell expensive “vegan” (cheap plastic) boots. Where can I find leather boots??

It is very difficult to buy shoes ethically - there's the animal welfare concerns with leather or the non-biodegradable vegan "pleather* alternative. It's easier in summer when canvas is an option but that's not much help in winter. Timberland's environmental credentials seem fairly good on their website, not read anything independent about them.

John Lewis have some nice brown lace up ankle boots, £109. Classic style. I can't attach a link as their website doesn't seem to be working at the moment.

HumbugWhale - yes I agree with that. Ultimately I guess lesser consumption is key but it requires a huge shift in us all. We’ve got used to cheap goods. My concern is with cheap vegan alternatives yes you do have environmental concerns. But with cheap leather you have that too and undeniable, real suffering of sentient beings.

@LoveLabradors

Snowy Queen it is simply factual - not hate. China has a terrible record for animal welfare. It’s indisputable. To call stating this fact “hate” is ridiculous, tiresome and insulting too. It’s too easily used now to shut down debate. RobertaFirmino I’m not disputing people’s right to choose leather - I’m talking about being mindful of how endless cheap leather has an impact on animal welfare. There is not going to be good animal husbandry involved. And the leather industry is far from environmentally friendly too. Animals - sentient beings pay a terrible price for cheap leather.

No hate? China can treat companion animals with such barbarism how on Earth do they treat cows and sheep etc bit racist to say that the Chinese abuse their pets (I’m assuming you’re thinking about the dog festival which is in one city and NOT widespread?). Also define “companion animal.” Some people have pet lambs, pigs, alpacas etc.

Before you slam the “scary exotic orient,” it would be best if you looked at which countries have awful track records for animal welfare. There are “worse” countries.

www.vegetarians.co.nz/articles/new-animal-cruelty-index/

api.worldanimalprotection.org/

Anyway, this is a thread about fashion. Go away.

I have just bought some black leather ankle boots from Gabor (which will last me years based on previous ones).

@Maireas

What kind of style? In M&S and John Lewis they both had leather ankle boots, but M&S were a bit more like hiking boots if you know what I mean?

I just want a cute low heel pair with a zip on the side. Not looking for hiking boots or lace ups (I have my Dr Martens). I don’t shop at John Lewis often, but I’ll have a look!

I know what you mean! The JL ones are similar to ones I have, classic brown ankle boots, lace up, thin sole. Very durable. Maybe the website is up and running now!

Fat Face have a nice pair, side zip, quite cute, £69

@LoveLabradors

Waltzing Betty. I’m aware thanks of large scale leather production in India. I’m also very aware of the scale of leather production in China, Vietnam etc. I’m also aware of the brutality involved in any animal trade there - from fur to down to leather. To bring racism in again is ridiculous. You can’t just shut down debates about animal welfare by shouting hate or racism. And as I said previously I doubt working conditions for the workers are exactly wonderful either - there is a lot of human and animal suffering for the insatiable appetite of endless consumerism.

Where have I tried to shut down debate exactly? Derailing threads is poor MN etiquette.

Sure feel free to derail by making sweeping generalisations about countries that the OP hasn't asked about, but don't then get upset when others point out the flaws in your diatribe

Brazil, Russia and a India produce more leather than Vietnam so what's your rationale for not mentioning them as you're so committed to mentioning the facts about the scale of the leather industry?

M+S had a fair few pairs last time I was in there - I went for the hiking style ones but obviously you don't want those... very comfortable.

f places like China can treat companion animals with such barbarism how on Earth do they treat cows and sheep

@LoveLabradors oh yeah - definitely no racist sweeping statements there then?

I can answer that for having actually lived in China for a considerable period.

Like members of their families in most cases.
HTH

Schuh and office both have a huge range of leather and non leather boots. You can usually tell by the price without checking the labels.

@LoveLabradors

Snowy Queen it is simply factual - not hate. China has a terrible record for animal welfare. It’s indisputable. To call stating this fact “hate” is ridiculous, tiresome and insulting too. It’s too easily used now to shut down debate. RobertaFirmino I’m not disputing people’s right to choose leather - I’m talking about being mindful of how endless cheap leather has an impact on animal welfare. There is not going to be good animal husbandry involved. And the leather industry is far from environmentally friendly too. Animals - sentient beings pay a terrible price for cheap leather.

agree with you lovelabs , i do feel as long as we have muppets like the op who dont care about how the animals or people have suffered to make the products they buy to look good things wont change much , its undisputed that china has a terrible reputation for animal cruelty ,and to suggest its racism to say so is farcial .

its undisputed that china has a terrible reputation for animal cruelty ,and to suggest its racism to say so is farcial

It's actually disputed in this thread

There are many countries with equal and in many cases worse animal welfare problems than China.

Jumping to inaccurate and unpleasant national stereotypes about an entire country of people is pretty much the definition of racism.

@LoveLabradors

I shudder to think of the provenance of cheap leather - it will almost certainly involve horrific suffering. Why would anyone expect to be able to buy cheap leather? Also many people chose “vegan” leather as an ethical alternative now. Leather has ceased to be a by product of the meat industry now as its worth is much greater - if places like China can treat companion animals with such barbarism how on Earth do they treat cows and sheep etc? The endless expectation of of cheap food and clothes based on the suffering of other people and animals has to end. Primark leather will not be in anyway sourced from humanely treated animals. Not to mention the fact that in the Far East it has not been uncommon for dog leather to enter the supply chain.

That's interesting @LoveLabradors
Do you think that more expensive leather boots are likely to be a by-product of the meat industry and
hopefully better animal welfare? I was looking at some boots from Celtic & Co.

@WaltzingBetty thank you. I’m a British born Chinese woman and I’m sick and tired of harmful racist stereotypes!! I just don’t want plastic shoes. Didn’t realise @chaosrabbitland @LoveLabradors would come on here to show off their racism against East Asians. The US is horrific (lots of zoological disease outbreaks), but of course racists won’t think about that.

That's interesting @LoveLabradors*
Do you think that more expensive leather boots are likely to be a by-product of the meat industry and hopefully better animal welfare? I was looking at some boots from Celtic & Co.*

No. It's almost impossible to buy leather that doesn't originate from ethically tricky sources. Brazilian leather is possibly better. Uk sourced leather is very rare but maybe email them and ask. It would be nice if they did.

The best you can aim for is leather that is tanned in the EU at least then the pollutants are minimised

Anyway, this is a thread about fashion. Go away.

@SnowyQueen but fashion can be ethical too - and in the best of both worlds we can hopefully source clothing which is both fashionable and/or stylish and ethical .

[quote SnowyQueen]**@WaltzingBetty* thank you. I’m a British born Chinese woman and I’m sick and tired of harmful racist stereotypes!! I just don’t want plastic shoes. Didn’t realise @chaosrabbitland* @LoveLabradors would come on here to show off their racism against East Asians. The US is horrific (lots of zoological disease outbreaks), but of course racists won’t think about that.[/quote]
It was actually the USA was thinking of too - interesting how they're rarely criticised but their animal welfare standards are dreadful across many industries.

I actually don't buy leather because of the welfare problems, but I object just as much to lazy, racist stereotyping

@WaltzingBetty the boots I was looking at said they were made in Morocco but it doesn't say where the leather came from . Yes I could email them, good idea .

Sorry to derail .

@shinynewapple21

Anyway, this is a thread about fashion. Go away.

@SnowyQueen but fashion can be ethical too - and in the best of both worlds we can hopefully source clothing which is both fashionable and/or stylish and ethical .

Weird then that if those were the objectives, no one has actually made any constructive suggestions along those lines...

[quote shinynewapple21]@WaltzingBetty the boots I was looking at said they were made in Morocco but it doesn't say where the leather came from . Yes I could email them, good idea .

Sorry to derail . [/quote]
That's not a derail - I think informed, ethical consumerism is important

I think if their products are made in Morocco the leather won't be ethical (and likely neither will the labour)

I've never bought from C&C (££) but my assumption was they were a premium ethical British brand. So that's disappointing

It is getting harder to find quality leather boots I find. I am overseas and thought I'd found the perfect black leather chelsea boot from Nine West only to discover they were cheap plastic for $170!

Made me sad as I remember Nine West being lovely quality leather (20 years ago!)

I find a lot of shops do both, Steve Madden has both cheaper plastic boots for around $100 but leather ones for $140+

[quote SnowyQueen]**@WaltzingBetty* thank you. I’m a British born Chinese woman and I’m sick and tired of harmful racist stereotypes!! I just don’t want plastic shoes. Didn’t realise @chaosrabbitland* @LoveLabradors would come on here to show off their racism against East Asians. The US is horrific (lots of zoological disease outbreaks), but of course racists won’t think about that.[/quote]
most countries have animal cruelty. asia has some of the worst records of it .if it makes you feel better to label someone racist when they point out that fact than confront that truth then do carry on lol. id like to be able to wear any kind of make up .buy any kind of beauty products and cloths without worrying if an animal has suffered or died for it , but instead i pick carefully because i dont . you obviously dont give a shit if an animal has died for your boots you want and whatever else so it would be better to just admit that rather than deflecting with stupid accusations

@chaosrabbitland
Asia is not a country

Which of the OP's posts makes you think she's not aware that leather comes from dead animals? of course she's making a choice with her purchases. It's just a different choice to you. That's allowed.

And you're the one on her thread deflecting and derailing and being generally unpleasant.

It's very odd.