So what precisely constitutes Frump?

[linmanuel]

Inspired by the thread about cardigans
I am wondering what makes something frumpy

My Dad's a Blue Harbour Dad. Never been accused of being stylish, but he looks alright in his cords, sturdy brown leather shoes, checked shirt and wool tank top 😁

I really think it's about the person and how they carry themselves rather than the actual clothes. I do think a baggy patterned t shirt with a knee length skirt would look frumpy, however on a slim tall woman it wouldn't. I'm a size 14 and wear a lot of black, sometimes shapeless shift style dresses but my hair and make up is always done and I feel polished. I like loose clothes, hippy style on my days off, and never feel frumpy even in my loose comfy jumpsuits with flip flops.

I think of frumpy as faded bootleg jeans, tired trainers and washed out tees or fleeces. Or floral print mid calf dresses with high necklines on plump middle aged women - they look edgy on skinny young women but the rest of us teeter towards Hacidic wife in them, which is not a glamorous look.

Ultimately, it's dressing like you don't care, like you've given up on looking sexy or stylish or paying any attention to what look you are presenting. I know because I dressed like this for years. Depression and massive weight gain. Now I am losing weight - and although I am still massive, I make an effort often and get DC, one of whom is obsessed with fashion, to check my outfits and tell me what shoes and accessories to put with them. When I make an effort I get compliments and even turn heads sometimes, even though I am fat and plain. But I was sick of being and feeling invisible and apologetic in my dress sense. Doesn't take much effort to make a massive difference.

For me it's anything that seems like it's designed for a woman in her 50s or 60s, but is being worn on someone 20-30 years younger.

Stuff that makes you look like a stock image or something out of a catalogue.

Dowdy prints and loud primary colours are two major factors. A mustard yellow anorak or a bright fuchsia jumper.

Pretty much everything in White Stuff, Fat Face, Joule, Matalan, Paco, Wallis, Evans etc fits this category for me. I'd feel like my mum wearing any of it. Some of it would look lovely on her, but would be the definition of frump on me.

This thread depresses me. I dress frumpily and I really wish I didn't but I don't seem to be able to manage better.

I have mild sensory issues which means I can't stand wearing anything heavy or tight on my legs - jeans are the worst and I struggle with tights. Jersey Joggers are my bottoms of choice but I struggle to style them.

I can't wear any wool at all even cashmere as it makes me itch/come out in a rash. Therefore decent quality knitwear is a struggle. I have some cotton jumpers but they aren't warm.

I have quite wide feet so shoes aren't always easy to find. Whilst it's better than it was, not always the most stylish.

I am short and a bit fat (size 14). Like a poster earlier this week I am an hourglass/pear but with a tummy and heavy legs. Very short waisted and a proportionally small waist. So hard to dress.

I need colour - I get very washed out in neutrals and they make me feel a bit down as well. Had my colours 'done' and I definitely suited the spring greens/pinks/turquoises which can be hard to find in styles I'd want to wear.

So finding bright, fitted but soft stylish casual outfits which suit someone short but not petite on a limited budget with no innate sense of style - fucking nightmare. Frumpy it is.

I am probably the epitome of frumpy. Middle aged, overweight (but trying to do something about it) and with low self confidence. Black everything, no jewellery, flat shoes, no accessories. If I tried to change it I wouldn't have the knowledge or the money to know where to start. I've tried wearing different colour tops but they just make me look worse so I've given up. 5 pairs of black trousers, 5 black t-shirts, flat black shoes and no need to think about my working wardrobe.

It’s when you wear clothes without much thought, and when they don’t flatter you or even fit you properly. Nothing wrong with that if you’re not interested or it makes no difference to how you feel.

To not appear frumpy, I think you can wear what you like but it must fit and suit you.

I hate these threads when they just make people feel bad about themselves.

Frumpiness is really easily avoided by caring about fashion. And if you don’t care then being frumpy doesn’t matter anyway.

But if you don’t know where to start ask yourself: is it fleecy? Does it have a half zip?

I donno. I'm 39 and still feel young but a lot of these things sound pretty good in our mid Covid19 world. Comfortable shoes, elastic waistbands, waterproof jackets and fleeces? Where do I sign?

white socks with casual shoes, black court shoes with clunky heels worn with polyester trousers, rugby style tops and jeans, fleeces when you aren't on a walk in the country, a boring black handbag that 'goes' with anything (or nothing),

Out for the day today and saw a fair few men in washed out wide leg bootcut jeans, old trainers and a shapeless sludge coloured t shirt. That's 'Dad frump' IMO.

Hmmm I think there are far more frumpy men around. I think women in the main take more care over their appearance. I think frumpy is often used to describe women over 40 who aren't stick thin. Just as mumsy is applied to a mother of a young child/children who has to dress practically.

@PersonaNonGarter

I hate these threads when they just make people feel bad about themselves.

Frumpiness is really easily avoided by caring about fashion. And if you don’t care then being frumpy doesn’t matter anyway.

But if you don’t know where to start ask yourself: is it fleecy? Does it have a half zip?

It does matter even if you don't care about fashion, you can want to look good without wearing fashionable clothes. I go into work and see my reflection in the full length glass door and know I look awful but can't do anything about it.

No one should ignore fashion and hope to look good.

Fashion is the lift that shows engagement with clothes and links what someone is wearing to the Now.

Avoiding frumpiness isn’t about fashionable up to the minute new clothes themselves, so much as how the clothes are worn. It needs to be fresh and confident. So, any trousers rolled to current fashionable leg length, any old shirt but tucked in at the front, cardigan worn open, any hoop earrings - and bang it’s 2020. Get modern hair cut, spend on fashionable flat shoes, wear bracelets and you are there. Same clothes, same comfort.

You don't have to roll your trouser legs to whatever arbitrary length someone somewhere had decided is the right length for any particular year. Or tuck your shirt in to your trousers in a particular way (again completely arbitrary, however daft it looks).

Looking good - if you care enough to bother - is about being happy, confident and comfortable in your own skin. I'm old enough to have lived through decades of fashion and believe me, many clothes which were the height of fashion at the time look absolutely ridiculous with the benefit of hindsight.

@justanotherneighinparadise

I’ve just had a quick google and this image is a good example of what I visualise outfit wise when I think frumpy It’s a good example of how a few changes can make a big difference.

I think knee height boots with skirts like that are frumpy. Maybe because I just loathe that look. Also black opaque tights with anything that is not also black or at least very dark grey, clothing or shoes.

You don't have to roll your trouser legs to whatever arbitrary length someone somewhere had decided is the right length for any particular year. Or tuck your shirt in to your trousers in a particular way (again completely arbitrary, however daft it looks).

This is quite a frumpy statement though? however daft it looks is your view of what a trouser length should be, there is no ‘correct’ length.

Fashion is the best guard against frumpsville.

Oh god, I am frumpy according to this thread (I knew it really, was just in denial...😪)

I'm always wearing band t-shirts, lord help me if that's frumpy! (My go to outfit is band t-shirt, skater skirt, long stripy socks or coloured tights, then ankle boots or combat boots, with a denim jacket or my black velvet jacket on top if it's cold enough to wear it. I feel good and I think I look good, although others might disagree. )

I think of beige when I think of frumpy, as that's a colour that I don't think suits anyone. Or the men I see who seem to avoid wearing any sort of strong colour, it's all grey and light blue and it looks boring as hell. (I live with a bloke like that, I thought my wardrobe wasn't that colourful until I saw his washing on the line and felt better about my style choices.)

mustard coloured puffa jackets with the faux fur trim.

And brassy highlights styled with a poor attempt to do “beach waves”....just looks tangled and messy. And yet so many people try and pull this unkempt look off.

Agreed with the PP who mentioned Fat Face! Most definitely frumpy.

I think a lot of people are tying themselves in knots here. Frumpy means an unattractive woman that not enough men want to have sex with. It’s really not a woman who’s trousers are the 2018 length or one who’s tops are a faded colour.

I promise you, on an attractive woman these things are not frumpy.

I think frumpiness is like a lot of things in the Style and Beauty section (polished? chic? etc etc) - utterly in the eye of the beholder.

Maybe we should just do us, and let everyone else do them. It's not a crime either way.

I agree with people who say it's wearing clothes intended for a different age group though. I like Sea Salt and White Stuff and sometimes evenJoules. But I'm in my late fifties. I don't feel polished or glam in them but I think they are fine every day clothes for walking the dog or hanging out with the DC. Don't feel frumpy in them either.

Popsy type dresses worn over leggings or thick coloured tights