➿ Fantastic Haircare: Making Sense and Science of the Curly Girl Method (thread 2)

[botemp]

Offshoot thread from the Fantastic Skincare threads to document the trials and tribulations in order to make sense and science of the curly girl method. We don't necessarily follow it to the letter and are even critical of it in places. Nor are we especially knowledgeable at this point but we're learning as we go. Feel free to join in as we attempt to approach this with an interest in ingredients and try to not buy everything that promises us magical things…

Useful blogs:

Curly Cailín on the golden triangle of healthy hair
Science-y Hair Blog
The Mestiza Muse
The Beauty Brains (podcast/blog)

Understanding ingredients:

Commonly found ingredients in haircare

Useful information about cosmetic chemistry

Porosity:

(video)

Removing build up:

Shampoos which remove product build up

Cationic compounds (of interest to those with buildup prone and/or fine hair):

Cationic compounds found in cosmetics

Polyquats (of interest to those with buildup prone and/or fine hair):

Polyquat buildup

To polyquats or not

Silicones, polyquats and soap

Another cosmetic ingredient to be afraid of?

Protein/Moisture balance:

(video)

Extract and proteins in CGM, a biochemist explains

(video)

Hygral Fatigue

SPF protection of your hair:

UV protectant ingredients

UV damage of hair (pubmed)

Summers sun and your hair

Rice water rinses:

Rice Water Rinse

Elasticity:

Is it too late to improve your elasticity

Managing elasticity and porosity in hair

Hard and soft water:

(video)

Hard water and your hair

Olaplex:

How does Olaplex hair treatment work

Frizz:

Hair frizz science

What's your frizz type

How to tame your hair based on frizz type

Flash Drying:

Flash Drying

Next level nerdery:

Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair (cosmetic chemists' textbook)

@SophieLion I have been taking most of the water out my hair before applying products and I think I prefer it
Just use a flour sack towel and squeeze as much out as I can by scrunching up to scalp then put products in. Dries quicker and no other effect that I can see which makes wet styling better

Thanks queen. Have you ever tried wet plopping? Right now I apply all products except gel then wet plop then microplop to get out all water and apply gel. If you've tried it, how does it compare to what you're doing now (ie getting all water all before applying any products)?

The treluxe line is all quite protein heavy Bo. Was just looking at serum ingredients and protein pretty high up. But as you say they focus on Hydration a lot too.

Sorry to ask but could you please explain very simply difference between moisture and hydration? Thank you. It always confuses me (In skincare too.... )

Yeah, it's annoying because the terms mean much the same. Anyhow moisture just does mean water but moisture tends to be used both in skin and hair care to mean something heavy to occlude and keep water in where hydration usually means adding water to nourish and then usually using something moisturising to occlude it and keep it all in. Most moisture and hydration marketed products will have both types of ingredients in (as you need both) but the ratios will be different.

Hmm, I hadn't considered the protein of the serum, maybe I do need to get the sample first after all

Thank you Bo. So hydration is putting water in and moisturising is the process of keeping it there?

So for hair care, things like squish to condish and styling on soaking wet hair are hydrating and then the products contain ingredients to moisturise? I also SOTC with a tiny bit of jojoba oil which I guess must be moisturising and sealing in the water.

Re the treluxe line (which is all very protein heavy), people seem to get fantastic results so the products must be very balanced. I saw CC's video and her hair looked fabulous but I did notice halo frizz (which made me feel better about my own hair!).

I really want the serum but I will definitely hold off from buying more products. If I didn't have such a high delivery charge then I think I would have bought so many more products by now!

Which CC video is that Sophie? I've stopped following but will have a quick look.

Have to say, I really like the Treluxe gel. It's probably my favourite.

I've never used oil to SOTC. I wonder if I would benefit from trying it but the only one I have is marula and I don't want to buy any other products.

Yes to the first sentence but I'm not sure on the squish to condish Sophie. Things change when hair is wet as the cuticle opens (and is therefore at it's most fragile and loses inner hydration very easily, so the mechanic pressure of squish to condish doesn't feel helpful for hydration in my mind and I've read that elsewhere as well) and I think the point is to squish in conditioner (which is generally moisture heavy although will have hydrating ingredients too), so that would be more of a moisture treatment, I think. But maybe it's a bit of both? A true hydrating process is something like a rice treatment.

It's on YouTube Ninny, . FIY the Treluxe serum does contain a polyquat, but it's a water soluble one so it's not one I discriminate against.

Oh interesting that a rice treatment is a hydration treatment. I've always thought of it as a kind of protein one (even though I know it's not protein but the insorbitol (sp?) which strengthens the hair). If it's hydrating then why does my hair feel a bit dry afterwards?

Actually stopped doing rice treatments (was doing every week) and perhaps should start again.

Just washed with innersense hairbath, treluxe conditioner, BC clump cream as leave-in, innersense foam dotted at roots and then 1 pump scrunched generally into hair. Microplopped and finished with treluxe gel. We'll see what happens! My only change from what I've been doing for about a month now was biolage to treluxe as conditioner as was a bit over moisturised.

Has anyone used the BC conditioner? I'm looking for a moisturising (hydrating?) conditioner which isn't quite as heavy and full on as the biolage.

Inositol, yes it's a humectant but there's nothing there to seal it in, but if you leave the rice rinse to ferment you get more hydration ingredients going (which Treluxe has in the form of lactobacillus ferment) which have conditioning properties as well but otherwise you'll just get starches which will likely feel a bit 'rough' and dry. I think the original recipes from Asia adds in a few drops of oil like camelia or rice bran.

I've never tried Biolage so can't compare but for hydrating conditioners I like the Curlsmith hydro mask or the Rahua hydration conditoner. The latter may be too light for some though. Curlsmith currently 25% off on Feelunique but there might be a better deal on Friday, potentially?

Yes I found the Biolage too heavy, and also the couple of treatment conditioners I had. I think I've always assumed my hair strands are thicker than they are, because I have so many of them. But I think they're fine to normal so I need to readjust my thinking.

Thanks for the link to the CC video Bo.

Hair needs a wash today but have chiropractor at 5pm so no point doing it before that. Crazy the levels of planning one must go to.

My hairdresser is a keen crafter and knits and crochets hats and gloves and bags. She's been selling them on IG over lockdown. It's her first love, over and above hair. I've asked if she'd be able to make a silk lined woollen hat. She said she's never lined a hat before but she's going to do a mock up of one. I've told her there's definitely a gap in the market for such a thing so she's looking into it...

I insomnia shopped last night. Have got the treluxe gel and serum

How do you make up your fermented rice Bo? I'm concerned that I may end up with contamination. I usually do a biolage deep condition after rice water rinses.

Thanks for the conditioner recommendations. I want to have a think. Don't want a deep conditioner - just a normal everyday one.

Oh well done Queen! I saw this morning that the treluxe serum is sold out at house of curls and naturalistic and only one of them has the gel now.

I just leave it in a dark cupboard for 48 hrs (it's not boiled, just soaked and then rice removed, minimum 30mins but I usually do it in the morning and take it out in the evening for dinner). Leaving it longer makes it smell very unpleasant. I haven't done one in ages though, the hydrating products I've found do enough on their own.

The other hydrating (sort of) conditioner I liked is the Kinky Curly knot today one but it's still difficult to get hold of. I'm also somewhat intrigued by the ecoslay rice pudding but that's a LIC, but another promising one for hydration. Would also point out that hydrating conditioners don't have a lot of slip so if you finger detangle it's a lot harder, my hair isn't coarse and doesn't tangle much so it's not an issue for me.

Thank you Bo. You mean you take the rice out a minimum of 30 mins before you use the water? I read yesterday someone said she put it in the fridge. Do you think a dark cupboard better?

I looked up that kinky curly one, thank you. It's sold out!!! Most things seem to be now.

It's been sold out for months, unfortunately, I've given up trying to source it as I'm not sure what's going on with the company. No you soak the rice (after washing) for a minimum of 30 mins (I usually leave it for some hours) and then separate the two. Then leave the rice water to ferment further.

Although you can just leave the rice in, I don't really know what the reason is aside from maybe wanting to eat the rice 🤷 you can put it in the fridge after and it stops from fermenting, eg. if you make more than you need or want to do it on a different day. I don't think the conditions for fermenting would be great as you need room temps that are pretty steady (hence the cupboard as they don't get open and closed several times a day the way a fridge does).

You're also supposed to dilute it before use which is kind of nice as you can make it luke warm.

Anyhow, it's not an exact science as there's no set method. The Yao (sp?) women ferment for two weeks or longer (and add pomelo peel to mask the smell) and then boil it (or boil the water then ferment can't remember exactly) but that makes it quite acidic (the long fermentation process, not the pomelo peel) which means probably skipping shampoo as it acts more like that instead of a treatment you leave in for X amount of time although they do spend a good amount of time combing it through and their hair is down to their feet so probably takes a while.

Had a really good wash day with Giovanni LIC, As I Am Jelly and Treluxe Gel. Very firm cast.

On CC's Treluxe wash day video she said she doesn't scrunch in gel, to avoid frizz. I usually do. Do others?

I scrunch everything in

Wash day tonight

Will catch up properly later but on hats, www.aboutthecurl.com has wool hats which are properly silk lined.

Thanks for the clarification on the rice water Bo. I am planning to try it this weekend.

Happy you had a good wash day ninny. I rarely use my Giovanni LIC (although had a good wash day with it ages ago (but then randomly thought my hair was too moisturised... )) and was planning to use it again this weekend so perhaps your good wash day is a good omen for me too!!

I glaze and then scrunch in gel but I've already wet plopped and microplopped at that point. On that video, she doesn't do either. Does she just glaze her gel then? All the IGers I've seen scrunch in their gel too.

Wow that is a HUGE spiralicious Queen!! Used rockin ringlets on top of BC clump cream on my DD yesterday and she had the most gorgeous curls (but then her hair is pretty amazing to start with). How do you like rockin ringlets Queen? And how do you apply it? I always find the consistency hard.

By the way, treluxe serum is back in stock at House of Curls (I'm not buying now though).

Are you planning to gel up an entire orphanage Queen

Sophie, where does it say the hats are wool, the silk lining is clear on the deluxe one but I can't find any further information (which makes me suspicious and assume it's just synthetic, it also says finished in the UK so I suspect they're just lining cheap hats from China). I have some silk scraps though, so will probably just try it on an existing hat first.

I scrunch Ninny, I don't think my curl pattern would survive a lack of scrunching, it would stretch the curl too much for me.

Maybe they aren't wool then Bo. I just saw the silk lining bit on IG. Perhaps it's vegan wool again!

it is quite large! Think it's 32oz

Do you have Rapunzel hair, Queen ?

Excuse the weird light, I wanted to take a photo at the end of the day. I tried out the Giovanni gel today. I had washed yesterday, so this is on top of the Twisted Sista gel (glycerine) and from a refresh. I will need to test it properly after washing, at the weekend. Usually, in this very cold weather, my hair looks as if someone has spray misted it and is covered in droplets when I've been outside (from the glycerine?). Today, it felt a bit damp though no droplets, and has held a cast - hooray. Thank you for the recommendation, Ninny. I will see how it fairs on its own, but it can be very misty/foggy here in the winter, so even if it is a layering job, it's a possibility.

I thought your hair looked good before I even read the text. Looks like you've got a good amount of body too. Glad it seems good, so far.

quirky, question about gallinee as it's on offer for BF, how have you gotten on with the scalp spray exfoliator?