➿ Fantastic Haircare: Making Sense and Science of the Curly Girl Method (thread 2)

[botemp]

Offshoot thread from the Fantastic Skincare threads to document the trials and tribulations in order to make sense and science of the curly girl method. We don't necessarily follow it to the letter and are even critical of it in places. Nor are we especially knowledgeable at this point but we're learning as we go. Feel free to join in as we attempt to approach this with an interest in ingredients and try to not buy everything that promises us magical things…

Useful blogs:

Curly Cailín on the golden triangle of healthy hair
Science-y Hair Blog
The Mestiza Muse
The Beauty Brains (podcast/blog)

Understanding ingredients:

Commonly found ingredients in haircare

Useful information about cosmetic chemistry

Porosity:

(video)

Removing build up:

Shampoos which remove product build up

Cationic compounds (of interest to those with buildup prone and/or fine hair):

Cationic compounds found in cosmetics

Polyquats (of interest to those with buildup prone and/or fine hair):

Polyquat buildup

To polyquats or not

Silicones, polyquats and soap

Another cosmetic ingredient to be afraid of?

Protein/Moisture balance:

(video)

Extract and proteins in CGM, a biochemist explains

(video)

Hygral Fatigue

SPF protection of your hair:

UV protectant ingredients

UV damage of hair (pubmed)

Summers sun and your hair

Rice water rinses:

Rice Water Rinse

Elasticity:

Is it too late to improve your elasticity

Managing elasticity and porosity in hair

Hard and soft water:

(video)

Hard water and your hair

Olaplex:

How does Olaplex hair treatment work

Frizz:

Hair frizz science

What's your frizz type

How to tame your hair based on frizz type

Flash Drying:

Flash Drying

Next level nerdery:

Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair (cosmetic chemists' textbook)

Thanks re the hair Sophie. It's really interesting to me because my current hairdresser said "we need to take quite a lot off the length, and leave the layers" whereas Nuala did the exact opposite: suggested leaving the length (thank goodness it was healthy enough) and cut lots of layers in. I think the latter was the right decision as it is more curly and has lots of body. It's also a lot easier to wash and rinse and there's not quite so much. But do you think it looks a bit too top heavy? I wondered about having a bit more off the length next time and none off the layers but that's not until March so it would all have grown down. I showed her Powerdomi's hair shape (she knew of her) as one I liked. She said my hair is more curly than hers which surprised me. I'm attaching an image of the previous haircut from my usual hairdresser and this haircut. I think it's helped me decide that I'll return to the curly salon 3 X a year. My friend with lifelong curls says it takes a few weeks for curls to settle down after a cut and I definitely felt that.

Good idea re products. My rejection of Cationic Surfactants is mainly based on Curl Clump Cream which I really like but I'm pretty sure it causes build up for me. Also it's in a couple of conditioning treatments I have along with polyquats. So I'm just knocking all those out for now.

My current routines are:

ROUTINE 1
Giovanni Triple Treat Shampoo (no protein)
Aveda Sap Moss Conditioner (protein)
If using a LIC - Giovanni (no protein)
As I Am Curling Jelly (no protein)
TreLuxe Gel (protein)

ROUTINE 2
Aveda Be Curly Shampoo (protein)
Aveda Sap Moss Conditioner (protein)
If using LIC - Blueberry Bliss (protein)
As I Am Curling Jelly (no protein)
Aussie Freeze Gel (no protein, glycerine-free) or Giovanni LA Hold (no protein)

Posted above on phone and didn't want to lose it so I hit send and switched to laptop.

I think my hair is pretty well balanced re moisture/protein, mixed porosity, so not extreme in any direction etc, medium thickness. I think I overthink it and would confuse what I needed to fix, eg "it needs more protein", "it needs more moisture" and then I'd end up causing more problems than I was fixing. I think it was more to do with products that were too heavy (I've also parked the Matrix Biolage for now) or containing certain ingredients and I hadn't really thought about just having a couple of balanced wash days and sticking to those for a while.

In between I'll use either Sunday chelating shampoo or Bounce Curl Clarifying shampoo. I like the Curlsmith mask (protein free) and will buy a full size soon. I've been using the Aveda Sap Moss as a treatment too: just for 15-20 minutes without a heat cap.

I do like the Innersense Volume and Hold but those are on the bench for now. I've got the Ecoslay Marmalade which I'll try in 4-6 weeks. I've also got a travel size of the Curlsmth Curl Defining Souffle which I've not tried yet. I really like the Blueberry Bliss LIC but it's got CS, but near the bottom so I'm leaving it in my routine for now.

I have banned myself from buying any more products lol. I think because I'm using Soolantra and pretty much nothing else it's contributed to my wanting to try this and that hair product, and also just trying to figure out how to get the best from my hair.

In terms of technique. I think wet plopping isn't for me. I wash and condition then apply the As I Am Curling Jelly over the bath when soaking wet, rope in (definitely the best method for me) and STC. Then I plop for 10 minutes or so and then I apply gel. I have a continual spray water bottle and I do that as needed. This last wash day I applied a bit of gel upside down, then the right way up. Again roping it in and STC. Then I micro plop, diffuse for 10 to 15 minutes and leave it be. I try to get this all done by around 7pm so that it's almost dry when I go to bed. Then I pineapple and silk turban. By morning I don't even have to SOTC, really. I just give it a bit of a fluff up.

I already shared my perfect products recently and will be sticking with them until the weather decides to dictate otherwise. I need to get a shower cap for deep conditioning though, what does everyone use? I've been using up a giant stock of stolen hotel disposable ones but figure something greener must be out there. Can you just use the traditional ones that are meant to protect your dry hair in the shower or should I be eyeing the biodegradable plastic bags from the organic supermarket and reusing those? 😬

Rahua Hydration shampoo and conditioner
Bounce Curl clump cream (as leave in on soaking hair)
Plop with t-shirt (I've yet to be convinced by the towels)
Top Down method shared previously
Innersense I creat lift foam at roots
Treluxe gel (winter) Innersense I create hold (summer)
Xtava Orchid diffuser (LOVE this)

Previously (and I'll probably revert back to it at times as it's quicker) I used a styling method quite similar to , only difference, I think is that I do a Denman brush session before applying gel.

I wouldn't be without my cotton towels. I find them much easier than tee-shirts.

Forgot to add, I brush through conditioner with my Denham but that's the only time I use a brush on my hair.

Interesting me finger coiling/not disturbing clumps/not STC gel in that video.

I'm still on the product hunt BUT it's my cut that is making everything worse as it's completely wrong
I've found micro plopping before applying products seems to work better for me now. Cut is booked for first week of February so my front bits should be long enough to then invert it
I'm not buying any products until the cut is done (I do want to try the treluxe gel and serum!) and I can see what she recommends and how it is

Definite faves are
Creightons micellar conditioner - thick but not heavy, amazing slip and £1.99
Ecoslay marmalade - I love the hold
Cake mousse - smells like lemon cake and is really whipped, a proper mousse not foam
Giovanni leave in - very light and I don't need much
Garnier almond crush mask - for conditioning or adding gelatine to make a protein mask

Queen in the earlier photo it looks really long at the back now! Assume you're going to a different salon?

@NinnyNewName yeah I'm going to Laura at hair lounge (that's her FB page)
The issue is it was cut short at the front so not inverted, and we can't get the cut I want until it grows!

I like your haircut, Ninny, the layers look good and bouncy. Tooth is feeling much better now, thanks, I had an infection, so glad to get rid of it tbh.

I'm still using the Twisted Sista gel, but with the Cantu LIC. With the heavier Cantu, I went back to taking out a little moisture, IC and gel straight on top then plopping. I'm looking at other gels, maybe glycerine free, the Treluxe has protein, so I'm not sure. My protein products are all wash out, maybe the Jessicurl?

Thank you Quirky. I tried the second 2nd technique Bo posted but either I wasn't very good at it or it just isn't for me. Hair a bit meh this morning. Although got 2 fat ringlets where I've never had ringlets before.

Will revert back to what I was doing.

Quirky the protein free gels I have tried are:

Giovanni LA Hold
Innersense I Create Hold
Assuie Freeze Gel

I like them all. The LA Hold is the first gel I bought and I still come back to it. I bought a travel size. I think you can get an ICH travel size too.

Thanks Ninny, I will look at those too.

Innersense is not glycerin free though, not sure on Aussie (I know there was something in there which made me discount it but can't remember what now, possibly glycerine) but the Giovanni was on my glycerine free list possibilities, there is a protein like ingredient in there though, it's soy based IIRC.

For what it's worth, I don't find the protein in the Treluxe very noticeable, and you scrunch it out anyhow. IME they use larger sized protein in styling products, like gels, where they just act as film formers and don't affect the whole protein/moisture balance all that much as they're just too large to make an impact.

What's so special about the Treluxe serum Queen? Intrigued now but thankful it's sold out so I'm safe 😃

Aussie is glycerin free I believe.

Yes, you're right. It has polyquats very high up, but I thought you had eliminated all of those too, Ninny, so I thought it must have been glycerin that made me discount it.

Yes you're right I did say that Bo. It's one I'm trying regardless, but I may end up discounting it.

Ooh, thank you Ninny and bo. Lots of info here, does the Treluxe have a strong cast? I seem to not being having much of one - in the silver curly group I'm on it seems to be quite common.

I have ordered a trial size giovanni, so see what that's like.

Ninny I think Nuala's cut description makes more sense . Plus it looks really good in the photo! I think if you cut more off the length and not the layers at your next cut, then it will slowly go back to being all more or less one length again.

Interesting to read your product preferences. Thanks! I actually went through all my products this morning and noted protein, glycerin, polyquats and aloe (although I'm not sure the latter two really bother my hair and glycerin doesn't much either as here the dew point is usually fine for glycerin).

What do cationic surfactants do?

For deep conditioning Bo, I have a few hotel shower caps (which I rinse, leave to dry and re-use) plus a proper plastic one which I got from the pharmacy.
Why do you use Treluxe gel in the winter and innersense in the summer? Is it because the innersense one has glycerin? I'll have a look at the video too. Thank you.

For protein-free gels Quirky, I really like jessicurl spiralcious and will re-purchase next time I order. Much less sticky and easier to use than the innersense one (I need to persevere with that a bit though). spiralicious has polyquats though (if that's an issue for you). Treluxe gives a very strong cast if used on damp hair (I apply after microplopping) but apparently cast isn't as strong if you put the gel on soaking wet hair. Spiralicious also has a strong cast.

Yes also agree that the cut is really important Queen. Really want to go to England and get a proper curly cut.

I also want to try the treluxe serum. People have been raving about ti and my cousin loves it. It's on my shopping list for next time!

The products I'm using right now are:

Cleansing: Innersense cream hair bath or BC clarifying shampoo

Conditioner: Biolage (because I've had big issues with dry hair after all those hormones - planning to introduce Treluxe conditioner (protein) in some washes as Biolage is so moisturising. - I deep conditioned with it for 30 mins yesterday and that wasn't the most sensible idea I've ever had)

LIC: sometimes Treluxe LIC (protein) or sometimes BC clump cream (no protein)

Curl enhancers: depending on LIC, but often use Innnersense foam (protein) now. I don't like it so much on its own but works quite well combined with BC clump cream. I have a CGF mousse I want to try plus jessicurl rocking ringlets (consistency annoys me so put it away for now but must try it again)

Gels: Treluxe (loving it!) (but I will buy Spiralicious again and really need to start using the Innersense one as got a whole bottle)

Techniques: if I have enough time then I do brush styling. Want to try the first video Bo sent round but no time yet..... I wet plop and microplop but don't dry plop. I brush through my LIC and then scrunch it in and then everything else. I spray on extra water before scrunching. I apply and scrunch upside down, side to side, right way up (in every direction really!!). Used to part hair but don't find that necessary anymore.

I agree with you Ninny about not over-thinking things but I'm finding I have to because I'm swinging now from slightly dry to slightly moisturised and struggling to find a balance. Welsh curly on IG had an interesting post about how being "over balanced" doesn't necessarily mean you need to correct it with a full protein treatment or a full moisturising treatment and that sometimes just a wash with, for example, more protein products can be enough to fix the problem. This was very helpful for me because I tend to get slightly over moisturised and go in with Aphogee only to spend the next washes trying to sort out a protein overload...... I really don't have enough patience for all this!

Reading over this post has made me realise I don't need to buy any other products for a while as got enough to keep me going for a few months!

Thank you Sophie. I'll see how my hair is in March I guess. Still got to decide what to do re colour. I have an appointment with my usual hairdresser early December AND a consultation and then subsequent appointment with the Aveda salon in my nearest City too. So I need to make a decision. I'm inclined to go with the latter but need to think about how to break up with my hairdresser.

I don't know if Polyquats are causing me issues but I know I my hair is not so bouncy/more falt when I use certain products. I don't mind giving the Aussie Freeze Gel a go as it's the only product of that type, and and especially as I'm alternating it with LA Hold. I'll see how it goes.

Yes I agree re not going whole hog with a protein treatment or a deep conditioner. That's what I'm trying to do - touches of protein here and there.

I won't pretend to fully understand the ins and outs of CS. I've read this blog post on it:

science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/cationic-compounds-in-cosmetics.html#:~:text=Quaternary%20cationic%20surfactants%20(and%20cationic,%2C%20emollients%20(oils)%20moisturizers.

Your technique sounds similar to mine Sophie and I also no longer need to find my parting. Also, I noticed since switching my routines to these two - 1) less knotting by far and 2) less shedding when washing/conditioning.

In case it helps, I’ve found this very useful Is it Curly Girl?. You just type in an ingredient and it gives you relevant yes/no/maybe info. Apologies if it’s been posted before!

My hair has gone to pot as the day has worn on. I only went out for a 25 minute walk. Maybe the Aussie isn't for me.

Bugger, the Treluxe serum is back in stock. I fear if there's a good offer for BF it may just end up in my basket 😬 after seeing Curly Caílin demonstrate it on YouTube.

I was a bit low energy when washing my hair last night so I sort of followed Sophie with using the Innersense foam all over under the Treluxe and while it looks very impressive and voluminous it also has what I call protein frizz which is a bit of wiry surface frizz (which I don't have naturally). Think it's down to my plopping as I noticed when applying gel my hair really needed to be wetter and since I was tired I just went with it. Anyhow it doesn't look all that bad. I need to look at Aveda phomollient mousse again, as I did like that as well but it ran out (travel size) before I really figured out how to use it. Maybe I need to pick up another travel size before buying a full size Innersense foam.

Thanks Pirate Queen, (are you another Queen or have you name changed?) I really like that site, have used it for a while now, I like that it gives such a detailed breakdown of the ingredient rather than just pass or fail.

I'll have a look at that link Ninny. On one hand I don't like getting to scientific about all this but on the other hand, sometimes it seems to be necessary. I also often wonder if hair should be this time consuming then I look at all the women here with straight hair and most of them go to the salon for a blow dry once or twice a week and that is extremely time consuming so I guess it balances out in the end if you want nice hair (no matter what route you take to achieving it).

Oh sorry the Aussie didn't work out Ninny. Have to say I've been tempted by it but of course it's not available here and delivery cost doesn't justify the product price.

You'll have to let us know re the treluxe serum if you get it Bo! Re the innersense foam, I do feel it can be a bit drying/too much protein (?) - that's why I've decided it's better if I use it in combination with a moisturising product. I think a lot of people who use the foam use it with the innersense serum (I create volume? Or I create lift? Always confuse the name of that with the name of the foam).

Thanks PirateCatQueen and hello yes that's a good site for CGM products.

As anyone tried damp styling (as opposed to soaking wet)?

*too scientific

If I could pay someone to do the whole routine and diffusing twice a week the way some get a blow out I'd totally go for it even if it is the same time spent.

I just checked the INCI on the Aveda and that has polyquats so I won't be buying that. I am wondering if there's a less drying foam (not mousse) for all over use, maybe the Giovanni? I do really like the Innersense at the roots so I'll get it anyhow and you're right it does work better when also using I create volume (I think) which is also serum like.

I can also get a sample for the Treluxe serum but going by the ingredients I suspect I'll like it a lot so may as well just buy it. Treluxe seems to be one of the few lines with a focus on hydration as opposed to heavy occlusive moisture but strangely they don't really market it that way.