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Vogue - do you love or hate its new direction

80 replies

lemonsandlimes123 · 04/08/2020 19:26

Personally I hate it. I think Enninful is an awful editor and that if he wants to be a social campaigner then Editor of Vogue is not the right job for him. I buy Vogue for fashion and escapism and sometimes good journalism, not for virtue signalling by the fashion industry. i won't be buying it again whilst Enninful is editor.

OP posts:
WaltzingBetty · 05/08/2020 09:06

@lemonsandlimes123

Personally I hate it. I think Enninful is an awful editor and that if he wants to be a social campaigner then Editor of Vogue is not the right job for him. I buy Vogue for fashion and escapism and sometimes good journalism, not for virtue signalling by the fashion industry. i won't be buying it again whilst Enninful is editor.
You hate the fact that he's focussing the September issue on highlighting the work of black sportspeople, celebrities, photographers, authors etc? Why such a strong reaction to what is a very important and topical issue?

Or do you seriously think the fashion industry is unconnected to issues of race. child poverty, celebrity etc? Surely exploring issues such as these is the cornerstone of good journalism, and an excellent way to keep Vogue relevant to today's world?

Or do you just want to read about skinny white women who went to boarding school and live privileged lives wearing expensive clothes?
I don't think Vogue is the problem, but I think you should probably reflect on why you object SO strongly to an issue championing the work of black activists.

botemp · 05/08/2020 09:06

I never really read the old British Vogue (not British, nor am I in Britain) so if I was ever buying a Vogue it was either the American one or the Italian one. British Vogue always felt a bit the ugly duckling of the lineup. I was excited for the new editor when it was announced, but the Lucinda Chambers affair did dampen that to an extent. I wasn't excited by the first issue and while I had fully intended to buy it after a quick peruse decided it wasn't worth the money, and have thought so with any issues I've looked at since.

I do get a lot of targreted articles directed at me through Google article feeds as I am their target audience but every article I've read, especially hair & beauty related are basic, patronising, display a lack of specialist knowledge on the subject and an assumption that I as a woman somehow got to be over the age of 30 with even less knowledge on the subject than the author. Nor is it very consistent from one article to the next.

As for the fashion, Vogue has always been coined as the Fashion Bible, as a pp mentioned British Vogue is currently all about what's happening now, when Vogue has always been the authority about directing what's next and I do feel that means they have been trailing behind by focusing on the now. And I'd agree, as others have noted, it's one clique exchanged for another. To me, it's as staid as it ever was, just a different type of staid.

I don't really have an issue with EE pursuing activism through the medium though. Whether it's my politics or not, fashion doesn't exist in a vacuum and politics and activism have always been a part of it. I admire the fact that he's manoeuvred himself into a position of power and is attempting to use it as a vehicle for social progress.

However, my scepticism is high whenever corporations (and I'm talking of Conde Nast as a whole in this context, plenty of articles have been coming out in the US about their corporate culture that is anything but inclusive, the Bon Appetit affair is particularly damning) embrace this narrative so easily on the surface, activism and capitalism aren't traditional bed fellows. It's not black lives matters to them it's black sales matter and it very much feels like British Vogue is their get out of jail card to say, look we're not racist.

That doesn't help the magazine, when it's only function is as a token and the activism comes across as performative. More importantly, it's not going to deliver on its ambitions of social progress, and that's the real loss. As this thread is showing the oversaturation of activism and subsequent coverage of this by other media turns sympathetic potential allies apathetic, call them out on that apathy and suggest not so subtly they're racist and you lose the potential of goodwill completely and harden them into hard-line positions.

MabelMoo23 · 05/08/2020 09:24

I think Vogue is fantastic under EE. I really enjoyed an article in the last issue about the women working towards the Covid vaccine. Vogue is inspirational and I want to read about inspiring people

With regards to inclusivity on the covers / magazines, a research article showed Vogue is the most diverse and inclusive of the magazines. But that Red magazine, since 2012, has had only 4 covers showing women of colour. Four, since 2012. In fact Holly fucking Willoughby has been on the cover more times since 2012 than there have been women of colour.

Absolutely appalling

chartreuse · 05/08/2020 10:03

Whatever EE is doing he's still pulling in the advertising, UK Vogue is still a substantial size whereas this months US version which arrived in the post is so tiny it's more a pamphlet than a magazine.

It must be incredibly challenging to produce a fashion magazine at the moment, impossible to have the sumptuous, story telling photo shoots a la Grace Coddington. A lot of magazines have been relying on models with photographer partners to fill the fashion pages. There is so little happening in terms of fashion, cinema and culture for them to write about. Even before Covid magazines were struggling as we all get our fashion news online now rather than waiting for it to appear in a magazine months later. I remember the excitement of opening the September vogue to see what we'd all want to wear for winter, but now we've all watched the shows live online last February at the same time as the fashion editors so it's old news already.

For me, magazines are all about the pictures, I rarely read the articles, so I'll keep on buying UK Vogue. I actually think visually it's doing well now. You can tell EE was a fashion editor himself, whereas AS was a features editor and not as interested in the pictures. I'm pretty sure that if EE had Kate Middleton on the cover she wouldn't be wearing a Breton and Dubarrys. Vouge had become tired and staid under AS, the way the transition happened and the ousting of former staff was very badly done, but from my point of view it's a much more interesting magazine to look at now.

I find all the 'wokeness' a bit tiresome but just skim over it. I'm resigned to the fact that as a middle aged white woman I'm just not the target market any more, and that's fine, I had my time, they need to appeal to a different demographic now to sell issues and survive.

I think activism is incredibly important and I'm really impressed that so many young people are so engaged with social and political issues now. It's a stark contrast to the 'greed is good' philosophy of the 90s when I was that age, which magazines at the time certainly latched onto.

I think the change in tone is a survival strategy for Vogue, to capitalise on the activism. That must have played a part when Conde Nast gave EE the job. They must realise that readers who like the old version will feel alienated now, it's just such a different offering, but presumably the powers that be at Vogue House are happy with that.

The magazine I ha e loved most over that last few years was Harper's Bazaar, really beautiful photography and fashion and I actually did read some of the articles. The editor Justine Picardie, resigned recently to write a book, but I hope it won't change, it certainly fills a gap for people who like beautiful things and don't want a lecture from their fashion magazine.

MabelMoo23 · 05/08/2020 10:43

@chartreuse ooh I hadn’t thought of HB. Thing is, I want to see beautiful fashion, photography, gorgeous beauty products, but want to read good articles as well - and I feel too old for Good Housekeeping - which is why I like Vogue - but may look at HB for a change

MikeUniformMike · 05/08/2020 11:33

I used to love Vogue. Picked up a copy last year and it was quite different.

Totickleamockingbird · 05/08/2020 12:31

EE is getting the business. That is the bottom line for the magazine. Especially in this environment. His target market is quite different and that is how he seems to be evolving things. So far, it seems quite a successful strategy.

Floisme · 05/08/2020 12:41

I'm surprised none of us have mentioned that Enninful is male.

I enjoy reading a man's take on women's fashion, but to have a male point of view shaping the entire magazine is a big deal. I think it's entirely reasonable to scrutinise where he's taking it.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 05/08/2020 16:14

I appreciate the way they are going, but it's not what I want from a fashion magazine. I used to buy every issue in the Nineties, and early 2000, then only bought when the cover was particularly appealing, then stopped completely when EE took over.

I want some escapism, and they aren't providing it anymore.

I much prefer Harper's Bazaar, its visuals appeal to me much better.

MacduffsMuff · 05/08/2020 17:47

I like it better. I was so bored of the same old shit recycled. It's moving on, readers can choose whether they want to move with it or not.

StellaRockafella · 05/08/2020 20:16

To be fair, I think British Vogue’s decline started long before Enninful took over. It was last relevant and interesting under Liz Tilberis’s tenure. The rot quickly set in when Alexandra Shulman was in charge. I loathed what happened to W magazine when Enninful’s was its Fashion and Style-Director, and don’t think he is the right person to breathe life into Vogue. Sure, he has amazing contacts, but name’s in one’s address book does not a magazine make.

If I want to read a fashion magazine, it is Harper’s Bazaar all the way. It’s the only fashion magazine I occasionally buy too. Am particularly interested to see how Samira Nasr shapes their US edition.

lemonsandlimes123 · 05/08/2020 20:27

Waltzingbetty - you have completely misquoted me in pursuit of your own agenda.

"You hate the fact that he's focussing the September issue on highlighting the work of black sportspeople, celebrities, photographers, authors etc? Why such a strong reaction to what is a very important and topical issue?"

I have said no such thing, I have said I hate the direction! This includes putting NHS workers on the cover, the 'feminist' issue that featured important 'women' who are actually male and various other aspects of the approach. I am sorry to disappoint you but this is not a race based issue. I posted now because it was the story on the BBC and EEs statement about making Vogue an activist publication which prompted me to do so.

It seems that opinion is split and some people love his approach whereas others like me are not so keen. A PP nailed it when she said it was one set of the 'in crowd' basically being switched for another different set of the 'in crowd'. The beauty of media now is there is always an alternative around the corner if you don't like something!

OP posts:
lemonsandlimes123 · 05/08/2020 20:47

Mabelmoo - Interestingly i read the same information about magazine covers that you did but it's not quite as straightforward as you make out.

That review by Caroline Hirons (so not exactly a study!) was specifically looking a magazine covers featuring Black women (I believe women of other ethnic minorities were excluded for the purpose of her calculations)
Red magazine did indeed have a 2.1% representation rate for black women since 2012
Vogue had a 25% representation rate since 2014 this came up significantly since EE became editor and is 43% for the period of his tenure.

I really welcome increased diversity being reflected on our newstands but in terms of representing the actual demographics of the UK neither of those publications are getting the balance right.

Please note that I am responding to another poster who posted information without any context. Despite the direction some posters seem to want to take this thread my issues with Enninful's editorship are around his 'activist' approach and indeed I also concur with the issues raised around the fact that one of the biggest jobs in a field dominated by women has been given to a man.

OP posts:
Bateshotel · 05/08/2020 21:15

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

WaltzingBetty · 05/08/2020 23:49

@lemonsandlimes123

Waltzingbetty - you have completely misquoted me in pursuit of your own agenda.

"You hate the fact that he's focussing the September issue on highlighting the work of black sportspeople, celebrities, photographers, authors etc? Why such a strong reaction to what is a very important and topical issue?"

I have said no such thing, I have said I hate the direction! This includes putting NHS workers on the cover, the 'feminist' issue that featured important 'women' who are actually male and various other aspects of the approach. I am sorry to disappoint you but this is not a race based issue. I posted now because it was the story on the BBC and EEs statement about making Vogue an activist publication which prompted me to do so.

It seems that opinion is split and some people love his approach whereas others like me are not so keen. A PP nailed it when she said it was one set of the 'in crowd' basically being switched for another different set of the 'in crowd'. The beauty of media now is there is always an alternative around the corner if you don't like something!

You actually said Vogue-do you love or hate it's new agenda. Personally I hate it.

If you can't be bothered to explain exactly what it is you 'hate' and instead suggest a BBC article which focuses on the aspects I've responded to, but then deny these are a problem for you, it's pretty difficult to elucidate exactly what your issues are. As you've refused to discuss the issues you find problematic, misdirected to media articles that don't represent your views and then taken offence when we aren't able to psychically establish what your viewpoint is. To be honest you sound fairly hard work. I'm not sure that Vogue is losing much sleep over losing the readership of an individual who can't even be bothered to explain why they dislike the current editorial direction.

Fluffycloudland77 · 06/08/2020 07:12

I always wanted to like Vogue but just found it boring.

If you can afford the clothes they advertise you’ve probably already seen them in a private viewing in a Paris salon & ordered them.

Floisme · 06/08/2020 19:43

I don't just expect escapism from fashion, enjoyable as that is. I try to think about where my clothes come from and who makes them and how.

If they wanted to, Vogue could be out there asking some really hard questions. If say, Enninful ever commissions a feature on the impact of lockdown on the garment makers - e.g. who paid their suppliers and who cancelled, or on cotton production, or even about how the high street is coping with the pandemic - who's going down and who's bucking the trend, then I for one would definitely buy.

But I can't see that happening because it might upset their advertisers. And do they even know how to do investigative journalism?

I don't blame them for relying instead on Enninful's fabulous, if somewhat London centric, address book. We all have to make a living. I believe too that Enninful is sincere. But please, please spare me the activism talk.

thebabessavedme · 07/08/2020 09:10

agree with @Floisme - I too want to know where my clothes come from and I'm very interested in the welfare of the garment makers, I get that as a middle class, middle aged white woman that I am now invisible and irrelivant to advertisers and the 'media' in general but I still like fashion and would like to look at a magazine with being lectured at.

AnnaMagnani · 07/08/2020 09:29

I only read Vogue in waiting rooms (spent a fortune on DH's eyes) and am v much not their target market.

However I'd honestly say I prefer Tatler which is at least honest about what it is and therefore a fun read.

New Vogue seems a lot like the old Vogue with a different set of insider mates. A column by Emma Weymouth - not sure how this is massively different to one of the old girls called Bunty.

As Floisme says it could be asking hard questions about sustainability, garment workers, role of fashion in plastics pollution, the list is endless. Instead it is doing the easiest form of activism which looks shocking but isn't.

TheTigerWho · 07/08/2020 10:35

I very rarely buy it, but I think the September issue looks amazing. I love fashion, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. So, I personally quite like the look of it and if anything am MORE likely to buy this style of magazine. Maybe it will bring in new readers? Probably younger readers too, (I'm not exactly young myself. I'm 36. But I imagine this might appeal to a younger demographic).

TheTigerWho · 07/08/2020 10:37

As Floisme says it could be asking hard questions about sustainability, garment workers, role of fashion in plastics pollution, the list is endless. Instead it is doing the easiest form of activism which looks shocking but isn't.

Not Vogue, (or at least not that I know of, because I don't read it), but many fashion mags have done this. I've seen countless 'The Sustainability Issue' editions.

TheTigerWho · 07/08/2020 10:42

www.vogue.co.uk/tags/sustainability

Floisme · 07/08/2020 11:16

Ha ha at 'Why isn't sustainable fashion more affordable?' Thank you, I will read them. I'm sure Vogue advertisers will go along with the odd piece on sustainability, because they know a trend when they see one. What I cannot imagine is Chanel or Gucci or Vuitton ever letting them ask the really tough questions. Vogue is the establishment and watching them posture about activism reminds me of Prince Charles dancing in the 70s. But let's see.

Anyway I've bought the September issue, largely because I have a soft spot for Marcus Rashford. I'm sure he would laugh at the idea of being an activist but he strikes me as one of the few people deserving of the label. He's changed lives. But apart from the cover, all I can see about him are a couple of copy n paste paragraphs regurgitating what I already know. I'd have been interested to hear about where a wealthy young man raised in Wythenshaw buys his clothes and whether he feels conflicted. Don't they interview their cover models any more?

Still some nice clothes though. Love the louche tailoring.

TheTigerWho · 07/08/2020 11:22

Vogue is the establishment and watching them posture about activism reminds me of Prince Charles dancing in the 70s. But let's see.

Yes, there will be an aspect of this to it. So many big companies are exploiting a serious issue to make profit. That is infuriating. However, I generally prefer this to blathering on about frocks while the world crumbles down around them iyswim? It would be lovely if they were sincerely concerned about the issues and less so about profit, but that won't happen, because they are a business.

ChampagneCommunist · 07/08/2020 11:33

Another vote for Tatler, if you want escapism. It's a whole different world