Vogue - anyone else gripped

[mrscampbellblackagain]

by the memoir of Andre Leon Talley who it seems enjoyed being part of the inner circle but is now very disapproving of it as he has been kicked out.

And at UK vogue the interesting way Edward Enniful has managed to be so dismissive of Alexandra Shulman.

I am a long time vogue reader/subscriber and must say I feel the UK edition doesn't appeal to me so much any more - maybe an age thing I don't know.

But anyway, I am quite enjoying the drama in lockdown.

Oh I've missed all that - details please!

I'm also a long term reader but I've pretty much given up on them since they went woke.

Article about Andre's memoir here

Alexandra writes in her latest book about how sad she was to have her successor be so critical of vogue under her editorship. Also stuff about models pulling out of her last couple of issues because they were told to in order to get work from Edward.

He has in turn said that vogue was a cold horrible place when he took over.

Apparently there is some code that you don't bitch about your predecessor. Seems a little short sighted of Mr Enniful bearing in mind Alexandra was there for 25 years.

I like your 'since they went woke' - I guess that is my feeling too.

I was not aware there was drama.

Sunglasses on.

Please dish on the Andre Leon Talley revelations. I think it was already public knowledge he was continually far shamed.

For the record, I never really liked UK vogue under either Shulman or Enniful more of a Vogue Paris or Italia person. Shulman left a weird vibe in that BBC (I think) documentary just before she left. The whole documentary had a bit of a weird vibe though.

*Fat shamed

Alex makes a point re weight in her book which is that whenever she did interviews with female journalists they all took great delight in writing she was a size 14.

No commentary on Mr Enniful's weight though when writing about him.

I guess it is no surprise Vogue is not the nicest working environment but the gossip is interesting. They are lowering the curtains and that takes away a lot of the mystique and glamour I guess.

I don't think Alexandra wanted to do the BBC documentary and was very aware she didn't come over well.

I suppose the vibe I've been getting from the new UK Vogue is that it has a very strong, 'you can't sit with us' vibe. But it probably had that previously as well, but I didn't feel excluded by that. What I'm trying to say, delicately, is that championing diversity is great and much overdue in that set and I applaud the new Vogue for that but I'm not sure how diverse it is if people again feel excluded by it with this tabula rasa approach. Then, again, something like Vogue will always be exclusionary by its very nature, so who knows. The Lucinda Chambers exit was rather undignified though.

I totally agree with what you have written botemp.

The book sounds very interesting!

I agree that the BBC Vogue documentary felt odd. I was surprised by how clueless many of the staff appeared. And they all looked and sounded exactly the same! This post from Naomi Campbell sums it up for me, although it does seem like bad form for Shulman and Enninful to have been openly critical of one another. I haven’t paid much attention to Vogue in recent years so can’t really compare it under the two editorships.

I am not a fan of Naomi Campbell - didn't she get charged with hitting her assistant?

Alex Shulman seems to say that black models she booked cancelled as soon as Edward was in the running.

I think Alex was hurt by Edward, he hasn't been very gracious.

I always think Anna Wintour is up her own ar*e.
They're only clothes fgs.

I’ve given up on Vogue in the last few years - read avidly from the mid 90s but just started to feel there was no real content (although I always liked the catwalk reports) and I thought everything was getting stale because Alexandra Shulman had been there so long ... but when Edward Enninful took over I didn’t enjoy the new version either.

What actually happened with Lucinda Chambers? I always loved her styling and thought she was way more talented than most of the other staff.

I used to like it when they did silly articles like a chef and a Californian vegan swapping diets for a week, or someone like Christa d’Souza trying out something ridiculous like wearing leather trousers every day. They used to have beauty articles that weren’t just thinly veiled, lazy adverts - I remember one where some woman documented some really invasive gum disease treatment! - and of course a food page (by lovely Nigella). Over the years there was less and less that was fun or more broadly interesting.

Niteflights - I used to love those swaps and very much enjoyed Christa D'Souza's writing. And yes, the glory days were when Nigella wrote for them as well.

It all feels just very slightly pretentious now, I still buy it but flick through it in about 10 mins. I used to eagerly await the new issue but not any more.

They may be only clothes but fashion is a multi billion pound industry across the world.

However, I think Anna Wintour is probably due to retire soon. I did love the programmes about the September Issue and the met ball though.

I also suspect Anna gets/got a lot of criticism because she is a woman. She has been uber successful as editor of US vogue.

mrscampbellblack yes, I used to look forward to every new issue too. It used to be so much more creative. I’ll buy it when it’s £2, but otherwise I get more excited about World of Interiors these days - and I occasionally buy Hello! Fashion for the catwalk stuff. No point paying extra for articles that are just nothingy.

Spiteful is never a good look. There's a huge difference in showing how it can be done differently in contrast to your predecessor without a word about them and criticising from the sidelines. Interesting parallel between Trump and Obama currently.

Vogue offices were so white and populated by identikit posh girls because it doesn't pay enough to live in London for anyone who doesn't have a trust fund or parents willing to bank roll them. That picture is not exactly telling the full story and I doubt the wages have suddenly gone up. Obviously there's an issue that these people decide who the outside creatives/models are that get hired and will choose people like them.

Lucinda Chambers exit interview in Vestoj here.

Vogue had a very white and very posh team (as shown up thread!) and a bunch were from very privileged backgrounds, eg lots of society girl contributors who weren’t exactly writing groundbreaking stuff.

I’m not sure how exciting Enniful can be. I was hoping for much more diverse models.... I mean ethnicities and shapes and ages... he hasn’t exactly revolutionised things, but think he might be held ransom by advertisers. And suppose it’s more diverse than under whitey-mcwhiterface Schulman.

Tbh is Vogue interesting at all? Not its website, not the magazine... honestly I find more interesting imagery from IG, and for written content I like the quirk of Manrepeller

I don't follow manrepeller but saw her in an insta shot for matches - she is alarmingly thin.

Botemp, you are totally correct about the dreadful wages and why only 'rich' girls could afford to work for vogue.

Undoubtedly more diversity was necessary but it is all so unedifying and so not vogue.

I much preferred Harpers when Justine Picardie was editor - interesting articles and beautiful photography.

Lucinda Chambers was treated very poorly indeed.

I totally agree. The wokeness is grinding. It's a joke to pretend that the new Vogue tastemakers and editors at large are one iota less privileged than the old ones were, and yet it's presented as this huge push towards inclusivity. They're all still bloody loaded! And pp who said it smacks of 'you can't sit with us' absolutely nails it.

I've also been struck by the really male gaze in a lot of the styling. Many of the shoots make me highly uncomfortable - fine, fashion is art and it should challenge you - but I don't get the feeling that this is the intent of the stylist or the photographer: I can't feel any purpose behind that feeling of discomfort, I don't know what to do with it. I think Edward Enniful is highly aware of some dimensions of privilege but perhaps doesn't recognise his own, which is disappointing as the editor of a magazine aimed primarily at women.

The Lucinda Chambers interview is a good read. I want to know what it said before the lawyers of Edward Enninful and Conde Nast got in touch!

Her end quote:

“The clothes are just irrelevant for most people – so ridiculously expensive. What magazines want today is the latest, the exclusive. It’s a shame that magazines have lost the authority they once had. They’ve stopped being useful. In fashion we are always trying to make people buy something they don’t need. We don’t need any more bags, shirts or shoes. So we cajole, bully or encourage people into continue buying. I know glossy magazines are meant to be aspirational, but why not be both useful and aspirational? That’s the kind of fashion magazine I’d like to see.“

LadyEloise

I always think Anna Wintour is up her own are*
They're only clothes fgs.

Absolutely. She looks desiccated and she is hilariously pretentious.

I read the pre lawyer version at the time, it wasn't that interesting. It just detailed how she got fired and Enninful came across rather callous in that which is understandable in LC's experience of the events. Not worth sending the lawyers in for IMO, just made Enninful and CN come across as very controlling.

I want fashion, not woke. Woke is dull.

EE had a chance to make identity politics fizzy and fun - blew it.

@botemp thank you for posting the interview.

Lucinda Chambers hit the nail on the head there when she mentioned fashion magazines no longer being useful.

I do agree that it was way too white, and a lot of the contributors became identikit posh women, but that could have changed without retaining the essential dullness and irrelevance of it.

I feel the last time British Vogue was relevant was under Liz Tilberis. Alexandra Shulman was not a good editor, and only fractionally better than Edward Enniful. I think he’s incredibly arrogant with very little talent or nous to back it up. He is well connected though, and that’s what got him the job, not least because Vugue needed to shake off the frumpy fustiness of Shulman.

To echo Lucinda Chambers, fashion magazines are no longer relevant, and have not been for a long time. They’ve have never been more in the advertisers pockets, and also the brands too. Brands now dictate how their clothing is to be shot, and will not along many of their items to be styled with other brands. It is ludicrous, and not creative or original at all.

I do really love Harpers Bazaar though. Great articles, and get fashion and acccesires. It is the only British fashion magazine I have read for the past few years.