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How can clothes stores survive (and thrive)?

66 replies

thisenglishlife · 07/02/2020 15:55

Especially as bricks and mortar shops

  • Better quality and less man made fabrics, especially with wardrobe essentials/basics
  • Not charging too much for polyester
  • Designing more for that store's typical customer - for example, the young and trendy Zara/Topshop crowd aren't going to switch to M&S
  • More stock and range of sizes (and re-ordering popular sizes)
  • More consistent sizing
  • Fewer over embellished items and items that don't suit anyone but the very young and thin
  • Keeping seasonal stock (but also out of season for those going on holiday). I've seen coats in August and in Jan/February, coats disappearing and warm weather taking over.
  • Taking on board feedback from long term staff (especially those on the floor and those who I have worked their way up) and customers
  • Fewer graduates going straight into management without real life/retail experience
  • How effective is advertising and marketing? Would the money be spent well elsewhere?
  • More manufacturing in the UK/Western Europe (not possible in the cheap and cheerful shops but could be for department stores and higher end of the High Street)
OP posts:
Floisme · 08/02/2020 10:19

Actually although I've been wanging on about lighting and decor, one of my very favourite shopping places is an outdoor market stall where, if you want to try something on, you take it to the public toilet.

The woman who runs it always wears inventive and inspirational outfits, hair and make up. She has encyclopedic knowledge of fashion and can tell you a story about every item on the stall (all second hand). Her customers are of all ages, sizes and incomes - all treated the same. Mothers bring their teenage daughters who become regulars themselves. And even though I only manage to get there a few times a year, she always remembers me and what I like.

That, for me, is the blueprint for a great shop. There is no website in cyberspace that could give me that.

And before you start telling me it's alright for me but..., well maybe it is, but this stall is in a small town that is neither affluent nor fashionable.

stopshoutingd · 08/02/2020 10:26

Yes knowledge & knowing your customers makes a big difference. I had a Saturday job on Bond street as a teenager & the most popular sales people did this, their customers were incredibly loyal to them.

NewModelArmyMayhem18 · 08/02/2020 10:32

I have noticed that when I was younger stores had their own identities eg Miss Selfridge was feminine, bohemian & Oasis was more conservative, tailored etc but now the shops all have exactly the same stock & if you don't like cold shouldered tops well there's not much alternative.

I think this is where a lot of the problems for shops has arisen - identikit clothing (and not very nice at that!). You are right that once upon a time there would have been a marked difference between them but no more. Most of the time, if you didn't know better, you could be in Primark (but with more expensive pricing!).

Once upon a time H&M used to stock some really interesting pieces. They are still there in some of their larger, more upmarket units but very difficult to find anything unusual in most stores.

Next was amazing when it first came into being but now its stock is generally mediocre at best.

Floisme · 08/02/2020 10:43

I think this is one reason why Cos and Toast seem to be doing ok. (I say 'seem to' as they're both owned by larger corporates so who knows how they would survive on their own.) But they have their own identity and, even if that identity isn't your style, you still talk about it and other people hear and go for a look and some of them stay. The same goes for Boden.

stopshoutingd · 08/02/2020 10:55

I blame Sienna Miller! It seemed like that whole peasant skirt, vest & boho belt trend blew up, was all over the shops & worn by lots of different women & since then all shops have latched onto "key" trends. Also I was a tween/teen in the 90s & I dressed very differently to my fashionable mum but nowadays 14yr olds will wear the same as 40 yr olds. Plus work in general is more casual.

I am really into fashion & clothes & hate looking the same as everybody else (hands up, I'm a dick) so for the last 5 plus yrs I moved more to designer diffusion ranges or designers on sale but even that gets samey, eg skandi brands, ganni look . I went for dinner with my mum, sister,aunt, cousin, friend. We were all wearing hiking boots 🤦🏼‍♀️🤣
I was looking for flat ankle boots with a side zip but couldn't find any without laces/hiking styling.

NewModelArmyMayhem18 · 08/02/2020 10:56

I agree @Floisme.

ExpletiveDelighted · 08/02/2020 11:03

I've totally lost the love for online clothes and shoe shopping, I only do it if I am almost certain of fit (eg repeat buys of something I've already got) as I CBA waiting for it to arrive, unpacking it all, realising most doesn't fit or doesn't look like it did online, repacking most of it, sending it back, waiting for the refunds. No thanks, an afternoon at the shops is infinitely preferable.

Things that improve the store experience for me are sufficient large changing cubicles with locking doors (not curtains now they all seem to be unisex), plenty of hooks, good lighting. Sizes marked clearly on hangers so you don't have to rummage through a whole rail of actual clothes labels. Rails which are not so packed things fall off the end when you take an item from the middle or back. Well lit full length mirrors on the shop floor for trying coats or just a quick look see before using the changing rooms. Clothes organised by type not collection, if I want trousers I'd like them to all be in the same area not scattered about. Not too crowded with freestanding rails, enough staff on the checkouts, knowledgeable and helpful staff, especially in shoe shops.

AuntieMarys · 08/02/2020 11:12

I am 6 feet tall, proper size 9 feet and nowhere on the high street caters for me. So online for everything.
The only shoe shops to visit are both in London.
The only high street shop I occasionally find tops in is Cos . Plus they do cotton.

squeekums · 08/02/2020 11:18

I live rural and Id much rather shop online than be stuck going to the city for a day trip or shopping at the one clothes store in town that suits neither my size or likes.
Even when i do venture to the shops there nothing in a style i like, sizing is crap and its cheaper online.
Very little gets me back in store apart from a very good price cos reality is i can find anything online and have it to my door.
For me bricks and mortar cant compete

Ozopallooza · 08/02/2020 11:32

I love real shop shopping. Especially as I have young children, being able to escape by myself on a Saturday afternoon to the shops, looking, touching , trying everything, stopping for coffee, is magic. Unfortunately most if not all shops near me are chain stores. Not many bricks and mortar independent shops left in my area. So the more unique (quality) bits I get online.

The real problem as I see it is that ppl arent prepared to (or cant) pay real prices for interesting, quality, local designs. Real shops have serious overheads. Ppl so often complain about prices and at the same time complain about the quality of the cheap shit they buy. There is an increasing shift to owning fewer higher quality clothes. I just hope shops don't translate this into being able to charge more for the same crap. Online reviews possibly are key to stop this!!

NewModelArmyMayhem18 · 08/02/2020 11:52

I think we need to go back to the days of local boutiques that know their customers and buy in the type of clothes they'll wear. Yes, they make cost more but frankly, I'd rather own a couple of pieces that make me feel/look fantastic than lots of poorly made stuff that looks frumpy on all but the very young and super svelte.

I used to love clothes shopping but really dislike it now. Most of the chain stores offer cheap clothes but most are dull and boring (and too many made of man-made fibres). I think I'd rather re-educate myself to save for something quality and stylish that I feel great in TBQH. (And I say this as someone who is not well-off).

dudsville · 08/02/2020 12:02

It's weird to imagine but I think the future is for most things to be bought on line rather than shops, so fewer shops on the high street. For a shop to survive it's got to provide something that is best done in person on the day. So perhaps a bakery, or a tire change place (what are these called? I don't own a car!), a restaurant or a cafe, etc., but not clothes.

I don't feel sad for "the high street". I prefer it this way. If anything perhaps it will help to reduce the foot print seeing as shopping is a hobby for so many and they crowd city centres to do it.

I frequently visit a village that is popular with tourists and I am occasionally drawn into a shop either to wait indoors somewhere or whilst chatting with a friend. The spotlighting means I'm trying to see past the glare at an item of clothing, it's crowded, the changing rooms aren't great - I don't need a cute or inspiring message, I would however like a door. Then they don't have my size, or I like the item but want it in a different colour - and a quick google of the style takes me to a shop that offers exactly that item in that cut/fabric/size/colour that I want. Also often the item is on sale at a discounted price somewhere else - think Toast trousers where JL had the last pair of their stock so reduced them significantly where Toast had not actually reduced the price in their stores.

For me, while their are brands I like, I no longer shop primarily by brand, but by fabric and cut of the pattern. So having a store of just one brand also doesn't suit me. There are essentially about 10 clothing patterns that I wear, half in summer, half in winter. Tese suit my shape. I'm not interested in looking at the things people with other shapes wear. I also no longer shop randomly and purchase on a whim. The items have to fit what I already know I am looking for, so wandering into a shop aimlessly is more to kill time or to chat with friends, so just seeing an item that's nice isn't of interest to me.

I also now exclusively buy toiletries on line because it's become tedious to pop into a high street shop only to find they don't have an item in stock. I can find it easily online and cheaper.

I think online shopping needs to improve. I once accidentally purchased shoes from Italy via Amazon, it can be hard to remember to check the sellers destination so Amazon needs to make this clearer. I also think they could improve their use of drop off points including the post office. And places that send their items in a cardboard box that's ridiculously large if you wish to return only one of the items (I've taken to using a bin liner and putting the label on that).

thenightsky · 08/02/2020 12:12

I only really buy clothes on-line these days. I find shops too jam-packed so its hard to get round the rails, plus the heating is going full blast so I'm a sweaty mess by the time I've found everything I want and carried it/dragged it all to the changing room. Then I have to queue for a cubicle with my bad back and aching arthritic joints.

The only time I venture out really is for shoes and bras, as both need trying on there and then.

SurpriseSparDay · 08/02/2020 12:34

How can clothes stores survive (and thrive) ... as bricks and mortar shops

Truthfully I’d say it is the maintenance of bricks and mortar that makes this model of clothes purchase unsustainable.

Rent, heat, light, staff all fight with our newly evolved addiction to newness, rarity and breadth of sourcing. A concrete shop needs to make sufficient profit - so managers and buyers are always forced to chase the widest possible appeal. And to appeal, now, to people who haven’t discovered or have less access to, the wealth of choice online.

Ergo Primark.

I adore Dover St Market as a shop. And Margaret Howell. If the Conran Shop were a clothes shop I could happily live there. There are plenty of really attractive stores in other countries. But I no longer live in London, don’t have the means to pop over to Paris, Milan, Tokyo every time I feel like a shopping spree, and really love the peace and quiet of browsing when most people are asleep. From my bed or sofa.

No contest.

Floisme · 08/02/2020 12:43

I disagree. I don't live in London or anywhere fashionable but I'm still in walking or driving distance of some really great real shops / markets. However they're dying off - yet another of my favourites closed just before Christmas.

Another thing I've come to dislike about internet shopping (and I was once a huge fan and really believed it was the future) is that you can't judge quality. I do think Hush, for example, may come to regret moving into John Lewis - it looks so good photographed but when you see it all laid out for real it's a different story.

GrumpyHoonMain · 08/02/2020 12:45

If they have an online site then the rules for refunds and returning clothes in-store should be the same. Also, to be allowed to trade online clothes stores must have branches too. Fix these two things and then most clothes businesses will thrive again.

stopshoutingd · 08/02/2020 14:17

If I won the lotto my dream would be to open a little shop in my area of London that stocked a really good mix of brands eg Topshop jeans, Nike & adidas trainers, independent brands & some higher end designers. You could buy wellies for the park or a pair of a heels for evening. We would stock some coats & swimwear all year round. Like a much smaller department store with only good bits of clothing. Lots of space to browse & try on with well paid interested & helpful staff. I would need the lotto win because even if it was successful I don't think it would make any money!

viccat · 08/02/2020 15:04

I actually can't remember when I last bought clothes or shoes in a bricks & mortar store - but I buy online lots. I can't really imagine much would tempt me back.

For me it's mostly availability of the brands I like, I tend to buy from smaller and/or ethical brands that don't have many stockists. If I'm buying from bigger brands, most of the time it's easier to find my size in the colour I want online or to compare different items.

I used to enjoy looking through TK Maxx and finding interesting clothes I might not have otherwise come across but don't even do that now. I think my online purchases are often more considered too, I might add something in a basket and wait a few days before deciding to check out or leave it.

Lily193 · 08/02/2020 15:19

Yes knowledge & knowing your customers makes a big difference. I had a Saturday job on Bond street as a teenager & the most popular sales people did this, their customers were incredibly loyal to them.

I completely agree. There is nothing more exciting than getting a call from your SA to say they have a piece they know will be perfect for you, and there are only a handful of these in stock. This level of personal service is something you will never get on the high street and is well worth paying for.

SideeyeSue2 · 08/02/2020 21:31

I'd much rather buy a dress IRL but the shops round here don't sell the ones I like.

I'm within walking distance of Whistles (one way) and Primark (other way). So you'd think, wouldn't you.

But I'm a 16 - fashion's fat unicorn - and larger sizes sell out faster.

Buying in the sales, always a joy, is a must online because the stock is boxfresh, unlike the dust-trimmed limp stuff instore.

Unmentionablesandfluff · 08/02/2020 22:23

I’m a unicorn too, of the short variety. I get sick of trawling the High Street, to find the same style in every single store in a size 6. The possibility of walking into a shop and being blindsided by a gorgeous top or glorious dress gets less and less. And those threadbare fabrics. A colleague ordered a pair of trousers from a River Island last week - they were transparent... and not intentionally.

grownup2 · 08/02/2020 22:28

Another wonderful aspect of online shopping is that there's opportunity for little compnies to make one thing really well - like Lucy and Yak dungarees or Zuri shirts or The People's Poncho - and find their customers on social media.

TableNiner · 08/02/2020 22:58

I live about a 20 minute bus ride from Oxford Street so I'll often draw up an online shortlist and then, ideally using the 'stock checker', I go to the shop and check it out in person - all I need is about 30 seconds to establish whether something is for me. It's much more satisfying and I'd rather pay the bus fare than the postage. Some of the photos online are totally misleading, no proper measurements, some don't even tell you the fabric (Very I'm looking at you). The issue for me is that one about a shop's identity. I'd love to be able to have one or two retailers who I knew had curated things that suited me, rather than trawling the infinite internet. As the brands try to be all things to all people they end up having 'online exclusives' which I can't access physically and this reduces the likelihood I will go out to the shops at all

The most ridiculous thing is when you can get a better discount online than if you go to the shop. I saw a cardigan in Gap online, went to view it. It was £20 cheaper online. Clarks did a 20% discount before Christmas and it was online but not advertised in store. You had to whisper to the sales assistant.

Another annoying thing is the discount games the retailers play which force you to buy now, or pay more in two days time, OR discover that the thing you wanted last week is sold out as fast fashion rushes along.

Quite frankly clothes shopping is now often an unpleasant and frustrating experience however you do it

SurpriseSparDay · 09/02/2020 01:18

Goodness ...

I wouldn’t set foot in Oxford Street ever, even if I lived twenty seconds away. I’m not surprised you find clothes shopping an unpleasant experience!

While I acknowledge that, if one started from scratch with no knowledge at all of any shops or brands, Internet shopping might seem frustratingly random and infinite - I’m fortunate that I had a good forty odd years head start during which I tested concrete shops to the nth degree.

So I pretty much never find photos misleading - I only use websites that provide enough visual detail for me to check the stitching on any garment. I always find and check measurements. Websites are becoming more and more sophisticated in the means they provide for shoppers to establish exactly how an item will fit them. And a clear statement of fabric content is just - basic. I once emailed an online shop to complain that they weren’t providing this information; they emailed back with some gentle guidance to click on a different section of the page ... As regards curation - I’ve just had a quick look and I currently have about twenty sites that I go to first when I feel the need for a browse. In all I’d say there are about 45 /50 clothes and shoe shops pinned to my phone screen - many of which serve for mere window shopping purposes - but I’m so familiar with their various styles and selling rhythms that I know exactly which one to go to for a particular need. And as some drop out of favour I discover new places. There are also a fair few websites that offer a more personalised service - but really, it’s not for me. I love the anonymity the internet provides.

And I don’t have to take a train, or park a car, or get hot and sweaty in crowds. No more stand-offs with supercilious shop assistants. My own coffee is better than the coffee shop. When an item arrives I can try it on with anything in my wardrobe, in privacy, with no one hovering outside the door.

I hate waiting for deliveries - but it’s a logistical difficulty that should improve soon. I make the odd mistake, of course, but rarely, and the amount of time spent waiting for DHL or queuing at the PO is pretty negligible.

Years ago I led the sort of London lifestyle that included ‘exclusive’ boutiques where they brought champagne to your exceedingly well appointed fitting-room. I used to overspend massively and then suffer pants of guilt. Never again!

BodenGate · 09/02/2020 01:29

Outstanding customer service
Great coffee
Free parking