Why don't people dress smartly any more?

[MilkTrayLimeBarrel]

More and more recently, I have noticed that people in general just look scruffy whether for work or leisure. My DH is a prime example of this. He always used to wear a suit and tie or trousers with jacket and tie for work - he looks lovely in a suit - this was one of the things which attracted me to him! Now it's jeans and a t-shirt for work every day (he works in an office so it's not physical work) - and he just looks as if he has fallen out of bed! He tells me that 'nobody' bothers to dress smartly for work any more. Why have standards fallen so far?

ClientQueen “I dress for work every day”

Call me a prude, but thank goodness for that 😂

@AutumnRose1 I second this. I moved to a job in media from Financial Services and the business suits/dresses and heels went in one go!

I find I enjoy a work environment more where the dress is more casual, there is less of a hard work/leisure split to my life.

Everyone wear jeans and trainers where I work but I do tend to invest regularly in decent Adidas trainers and casual shirts so I don't look too much of a slob.

I look at old films and the women are so tiny.. Slim. Their clothes fitted because they were made for them personally. They looked well groomed and glamorous.
Today everything is 'off the peg' so won't look as good anyway

In old films, the clothes fitted and looked wonderful because they were costumes individually and expensively tailored for filmstars. There's no comparison with either what ordinary women wore in their day to day lives then, or today.

If you go to Italy, Rome in particular, it is noticeable how smartly the people dress. Especially men with smart suits and of course many of the women.

I used to live in Milan. Both male and female looks were essentially a uniform. I found it kind of depressing, and was glad to get back to London, where my downstairs neighbour dressed like Helena Bonham-Carter, only with green hair. And was a concert pianist.

And from all the threads on Mn from posters who rip off their bras as soon as they set foot in their homes at the end of the work day, and/or who get straight into their pyjamas as soon as they get home, I have to assume a significant number of people still wear work clothing which is either 'smart' (and restrictive) or a uniform?

I dress for work every day.

I suppose it depends... does how he dresses affect his ability to do his job? I suspect not.
DH wears suits for work (Director in financial services). He hates it, he feels restricted and uncomfortable. He would work far more efficiently I think if he could wear something he felt comfortable in.
I on the other hand like to dress fairly smartly, even as a SAHM. It makes me feel good. We’re all different.

@AutumnRose1 I do actually model lingerie and nude so my manager is very grateful when "you put some clothes on for photos, I see you naked more than my wife"

I used to live in Milan. Both male and female looks were essentially a uniform. I found it kind of depressing, and was glad to get back to London, where my downstairs neighbour dressed like Helena Bonham-Carter, only with green hair. And was a concert pianist*

I agree with this! I also used to live in Milan and the people were identikit. All just a variation on exactly the same outfit. Smart, but dull.

Based on your last update OP, is your issue that your OH looks scruffy, not casual?

Casual does not equal scruffy, if the clothes are clean, fit well and are of good quality (or new enough to hide the fact they of poor quality iyswim). I dress quite casually for work, usually pencil skirt and jumper with flats, but on Friday I wear jeans. I don't look dressed up / smart, but I still look professional because I'm not a scruff.

I think the metric for smart has changed. We seem to be in the middle of a fasion phase which adds some element of sportiness to clothes which would have been worn more formally in the past (eg leather joggers, tailored trousers with sporty side stripes, baggy cashmere jumpers). I look better in more tailored stuff and find the sporty treatment hard to put together. It feels scruffy to me when I wear it, but after years of seeing it on others the smarter alternatives seem a bit bland and out of step. Allyson Walsh wears it well: thatsnotmyage.com/expert-style-tips/four-styling-tips-to-make-your-favourite-old-clothes-feel-new-again/?fbclid=IwAR0hfHdMXha0MBhj6SX4f8nFyd5BXVQg96-XpuhVo2KQAlieudGW5NprjUs

I love street style (London is so much more interesting to me than, say, Paris) so I'm not adverse to pairing contrasting elements if it looks like some care has gone into it. Styling can elevate more relaxed clothes so they don't look scruffy.

Having said all that, I'm not owed smartness and life is already taxing, looking smart is not everyone's priority.

A lawyer friend (50s, NYC) recently got a new job, leaving a start-up (casual work environment, he was one of the oldest people in the office) for a bank, and he said he can't wait to wear a suit again.

ClientQueen I did nearly ask “are you Irene Adler?”

DH wears a suit to work every day.

Occasionally he has meetings with billionaire clients. Everyone wears a suit apart from the clients, who wear jeans and T-shirts. Because they can.

*It’s also a status thing, particularly for men.

“I work in tech, I wear whatever I want.”

Vs

“I work in a shop, I have to wear what I’m told to wear.”*

I agree with this actually. When my husband worked for a company as an IT assistant newly graduated (when we first met) he wore smart trousers, shoes and a shirt.
Now he's a self employed IT contractor he wears, jeans, trainers and a hoody. They're always good quality, well fitting and ironed etc though so he doesn't look scruffy.

But what is 'not great' about wearing cold shoulder tops to work? That's just a personal style choice. If we're saying women shouldn't have bare shoulders at work in case men get the vapours, then fuck that.

@AudacityOfHope I guess it depends on the place of work, we aren't allowed bare shoulders (or open toe shoes)

I personally wish the general style was the same as in the 20's. I do think the idea of 'smart' has changed though, as DP bought some bloody trainers (expensive therefore smart according to him), jeans and D squared (awful) tshirt for our last date night

'I think it's about the poor quality of materials available in many cases. Acrylic and polyester in bloody everything on the high street.' In the 70s my mum had an assortment of cute little mod dresses for work, all quite structured (often made to look like separates) made out of thick poly doubleknit and my grandma wore polyester pantsuits to work with heels, scarves and brooches. They weren't necessarily comfortable or easier to care for (some needed dry cleaning ffs) but they did look smart, for that era anyway.

Smart clothes are generally poorly made and uncomfortable. I’d much rather wear hiking boots than high heels that hurt the ball of me foot and fall apart after a few wears. Even very expensive stuff is a bit crap, you just can’t win.

Yes, but my question is why? What's the deal with shoulders?? It's so stupid. I get open toed shoes in case of injury but no bare shoulders is patriarchal crap.

I was a Civil Servant, when I started most staff wore business dress in the office, men wore trousers, shirt & tie, women wore either trousers, skirt & a blouse or shirt. Managers wore suits, but gradually the culture changed as we became less customer facing & staff wore casual clothes like Jeans, T shirts & trainers, even shorts in summer. The majority of staff never come in to contact with customers as the civil service has evolved in to processing factories, customer facing roles have been separated from roles processing claims & dealing with the clerical side of work. What you wear doesn't change how hard staff work, working in a freezing office in winter isn't pleasant & staff wear what keeps them warmest, the same in summer when staff wear what keeps them coolest. Plus you wouldn't think that office work can be dirty, but when you have spent a morning rummaging through dirty files & papers or climbing ladders to get to paperwork that has been locked away for years you would understand. A good deal of time for clerical staff can be spent on your feet sorting & delivering batches of work to offices, working in smart uncomfortable clothes & shoes just isn't practical. Ask a customer who receives a letter from a branch of the civil service if they worry about what the officer who is dealing with them is wearing, they don't, they just want the job doing as quickly & efficiently as possible.

I've no interest in nor need to dress smartly so that's my honest answer but have thought of another reason. Living in jeans (+ t-shirt / jumper) I never think about my keys, card wallet, cash or phone as they all fit snugly in one of several roomy pockets.

While smarter clothes certainly have pockets they have never felt as secure as my jeans and the weight of my keys alone would lopside things somewhat. But then I find I am constantly thinking about these items and checking their whereabouts, particularly if I have to 'offload' them into a smart bag (and of course I am now thinking about the bag's location too).

So I probably dress like a scruff to lessen the cognitive load of having to think about my belongings. Also unless I look in a mirror I can't see me so am not particularly bothered about what I've flung on in the morning ;)

Possibly I would quickly acclimatise if I wore smart clothes every day but given that I don't have to we're back with my first answer.

Jo

This is absolutely location dependent, not to mention lifestyle. As a self employed artist in the Lake District I would look ridiculous in a smart ‘city’ type of outfit, or anything even remotely ‘groomed’, unless a special occasion calls for it.

The British are horribly hung up about money, appearing to have money, and appearing to aspire to it.

A fleece is still a fleece, even if you pay £200 for it so that you can emulate the Brompton-smythes on a shooting party.

@AudacityOfHope I guess it's because it's easier to look smarter? Like if we were allowed bare shoulders, someone would come in with half their bra showing or a halter top with a normal bra on so you can see the whole back of it etc

'I used to live in Milan. Both male and female looks were essentially a uniform. I found it kind of depressing, and was glad to get back to London, where my downstairs neighbour dressed like Helena Bonham-Carter, only with green hair. And was a concert pianist.' Yy, I feel the same way about Paris. I'm no good with 'classic' clothes, neutrals etc, I don't understand what to do with those elements or how to read them, it's a language I don't speak. Give me colour and pattern clash all day every day.

Depends where you work. I work in an office and although women don’t tend to wear suits anymore, it is still pretty smart. No jeans or chinos for example. More women wear dresses and skirts than trousers. Lots of women in heels, definitely more in heels than flats. I am a skirt, cardi, opaques and loafers kind of person, but my things are always ironed and co-ordinating.

Most men wear a suit still, or at least trousers, shirt and sweater. Half wear ties, half don’t.