British style, or lack of it

[Sarcelle]

I haven’t been abroad for a while (annoyed with the whole palaver of flying and just been holidaying in UK.)

Recently went to Mallorca and spent a day in Palma. What struck me is that compared to a lot of Europeans, with exceptions, we dressed so badly compared to them. And we are less fit. Since I got back I have been really noticing, it’s like we don’t care, yet in the main we have a lot of the same shops as them.

This is an observation for both men and women and when I say British I mean every age and demographic that makes up modern Britain. We seem to wear a lot of easy clothes - sportswear, stretchy stuff. In Palma they were wearing great shirts, dresses, fitted trousers, great accessories. I was sitting next to a Spanish guy at lunch, plain blue shirt, well cut trousers, clutching a book - he just seemed to exude style in an effortless way.

I know there are exceptions but it just strikes me that the average British person just does not dress that stylishly. I include myself in that btw. Sometimes I do dress well, but never with the same casual elan, and it always gets a comment along the lines of - ooh, you look smart, where are you going, even if what I am wearing is very simple. Like I S this be doing something extraordinary to warrent dressing a bit more smartly.

We buy a lot of clothes in UK but perhaps that is the problem. We buy a lot of cheap clothes and don’t accessorise well. I don’t think money or lack of it is the reason. Lack of will and perhaps a bit of self-respect?

I am sure I am going to get flamed for this post but what do you think?

I agree but wonder why we are though? We have a lot of the shops on the continent and Southern Europeans (I will use as an example as I am more familiar with them) manage to dress in well fitting clothes that suit them whereas I look like a wreck.

Personally speaking, I am guilty of buying whatever I think looks nice regardless of whether I have anything to go with it, at that particular time. It is pretty much uncontrolled shopping. I end up with wardrobes of clothes yet never look 'put together'. I buy ALL the time yet if I have to go anywhere special, I never have suitable clothes.

Clothes in neutral colours e.g. tan and black do not suit me. Navy suits me and I have a lot of it but it feels dull and staid. I like brighter colours.

I really think it has something to do with the weather. When it is constantly grey outside and all the trees are bare, when the wind is whipping around me, I do not want to wear navy and black. Of course I should really accessorise with bright colours only. The Southern Europeans get only a few months of cold weather so they spend their money wisely. In much the same way as we don't spend as much on our summer clothes. I was guilty for many years of putting away summer clothes and wearing the same ones every summer. I rarely buy new summer clothes for work because I don't want to spend much money on clothes that I won't wear much.

I think colouring comes into it too. Like it or not, almost everything looks better with a tan. Where there is a beach culture, people take better care of their bodies. They exercise, they eat a lighter diet. I have frizzy bright hair and I cover my layered clothes with a big coat.

The other huge thing is the rain. We get heaps of rain. We have endless searches for the most waterproof coats on the market. Just as fishermen wearing oilcloths don't look stylish, neither do we irrespective of how much money we spend on our waterproofs.

But at the end of the day I want to look better...........

I think there is a strong element of dressing for your climate and looking “normal” within that environment.

I see a lot of Italian and Spanish tourists in London on the tube who seem to very often favour a uniform of shiny short puffer jacket, jeans and sneakers. They certainly weren’t what I’d call stylish! Young Spaniards also have a lot of tattoos - I would say more than the average Brit.

In Italy there is a definite line between what you wear at home and in town. Everyone changes into comfy clothes at home but wouldn't leave the house in them. Also people look in the mirror a d adjust their appearance when needed!

I think some cultures have more of an awareness of what clothes flatter and suit them, as well as . So, buying lots of things that don't go together and don't suit you is not going to give you a very cohesive style. Also, a lot of Southern Europeans are quite petite with darker colouring, if you aren't it's unlikely that copying that style will suit you. But you can adapt the basic ideas of a neutral, quality wardrobe to your looks and lifestyle. I would also say northern France/Paris has a similar climate and Scandinavian countries have a worse climate, so hot weather clothes are not the only key to looking stylish.

I'm not saying you only need to wear neutrals, but they do make an easy basis to add other, more interesting bits to your style.

I think a lot of British people have a rosey-eyed view of "European style", and "European" everything come to think of it!

Firstly, Europe is a pretty big place. Scandinavia and Germany - the land ofwearing sandals with socks - for example, aren't known for their stunning sartorial style. And even in the countries with a reputation for style, it's not as though everyone is going around looking like they've stepped out of a high-end boutique.

I used to live in Italy, in Milan, home of Italian style. While I would say that most women - and men - do look good and are always well turned-out, I wouldn't call them stylish. So while you'll never see someone wearing a shirt with buttons missing, or a pair of trousers that haven't been ironed, everyone pretty much looks the same. Very little by way of experimentation or individualism. Terribly boring, in other words. I'm told the same is true in France.

So while the British may not be as immaculately turned-out as the Italians or Spanish, we're a lot more interesting imho.

Quirky you have made a good point. We are scruffy and unkept looking. We completely lack the groomed gene. Agree the Germans and Eastern Europeans are far more similar to us. Again perhaps the weather and bigger build?

I've just spent 3 weeks travelling around Spain and went to 5 places and stayed with Spanish relatives of my DH. I came back very upset at how I look.

Spanish women don't spend loads on clothes but are fashionable and mostly always look very nice. They make something cheapo from Zara look really good with a tan and long swishy dark hair. They don't wear fake eyelashes. I only saw 1 girl with them in 3 weeks. They don't wear nail varnish on their fingers unless it is pale or a dark red. Again, saw one person the whole holiday with coloured nails. They don't wear loads of makeup. They do a bit of eye makeup and a nude or reddish lip. I didn't see one HD brow, but did see well maintained brows. They are much slimmer than us. I didn't see a young, overweight person until the penultimate day of my holiday.

The men dress much better. They don't usually wear crappy T shirts but polo tops of linen shirts rolled up a bit. They wear chino shorts and leather summer shoes. They do not have 25 T shirts in their wardrobe and Adidas trainers in different colours. I have now banned T shirt buying in my family.

They don't wear nail varnish on their fingers unless it is pale or a dark red. Again, saw one person the whole holiday with coloured nails.

Good for them but I quite like experimenting with different nail colours, and differerent make-up too. All sounds terribly dull to me.

They are much slimmer than us. I didn't see a young, overweight person until the penultimate day of my holiday.

And yet statistically, 1 in 4 Spanish women is obese.

www.thelocal.es/20150630/nearly-a-quarter-of-spaniards-are-obese-world-health-organization

Yes Brisa I think that that is an EXTREMELY rose tinted view of Spanish style.

I used to live overseas. In the last 2 places one was hot and the other seasonal. I saw British women arrive all the time and what was interesting was that after about 6 months they all totally changed their image. We used to joke how long the metamorphosis would take when someone new arrived. Some of them became unrecognisable from their previous selves and looked fantastic. They would turn up with a suitcase of dull colours in shapeless clothing and half a year later they would be wearing gorgeous summer dresses, lost weight and have their hair done and look and feel really good about themselves and gain confidence. My dress sense was a lot better when I lived overseas and I felt better about myself. Perhaps it was the warm weather but I don't think it was just that. I can hand on heart say that the women I were friends with overseas, from the UK were stunners.

Back here I think there is something in our culture combined with the weather and our lifestyle that affects the way we feel about ourselves and how we dress. The best way I can explain it is that something here makes me feel like I can't give myself permission to take care of myself and look good. Its not that I need a trip to the doctor as I felt like this before I moved, then changed my image, then came back and reverted back to being frumpy.

"Overseas" is rather a big place. Where is this magical country where 'frumpy' British ladies were transformed almost overnight into sleek, stylish overseas-types?

Get a bit fed up of always hearing about how awful us British are.

Are we simply and only the sum total of our leggings and strappy tops?

Does a well cut, classic wardrobe staple signify some kind of moral hierarchy of humanity?

Jeepers, I hope not. Wear what you like, and be kind to those around you who dress differently..they are valuable too. It's not difficult.

Yes, Brista, please do name this country and I will book myself a six month sabbatical there.

We Brits can't win on S&B.

Classic is best. Lots of camel coats, Ralph Lauren totes, etc

I consider myself to dress well.

Sorry.
I consider that I dress well.

I work for a European company and I agree from the point the British start working there a metamorphosis takes place - usually within the year. I did it too!
It starts with diet and exercise and then simple clothes. And then less make up.
I like that the British are definitely more comfortable in their skins. But the French for example all talk in a way that we would consider ‘fat shaming’. In pregnancy 8-10kg all that you should put on and women are constantly told to lose weight by doctors. It is culturally very different and it is considered acceptable there.

Disagree, on the whole. Also, talking about ´European style' is meaningless. We are also 'Europeans'. Does it mean Spanish? French? Romanian? Estonian? Irish?

I'm married to a Frenchman and live in Switzerland. I can't really notice a huge difference in style between the three countries. Northern Europeans tend to be bigger people (height & build), but being small and slim does not equal being stylish.

And compared to Americans, the British positively ooze style!

I dress well, I think. My sister is more of a fashion victim, but always looks good. Her DD & DS's dress well. Most of the people I know look good. I've lived in a European country considered to be stylish, but this doesn't apply to everyone there and many people dress badly.

“I don't really understand the thing about not dressing up = disrespecting people”

Don’t you think it depends on the circumstances?

1. At my wedding a friend turned up in striped jeans. I was pleased to see him, but part of me thought “I have dressed up for the occasion, why couldn’t you have done so?”

2. For a funeral

3. For a job interview

Are you so lacking in social awareness that people’s perception of you is different when you wear something that is inappropriate to the occasion?

Unlike most mumsnetters I don’t hate ironing. I don’t iron everything, but I have clothes that would look a scruffy mess if I didn’t.

I think the main problem is that good quality clothes are just so hard to find these days. Our shops are full of nasty tat that no-one wants to buy, then they fail and go into liquidation because they don’t listen to their customers. And I wish the holy grail of comfortable and stylish footwear existed.

Agree with the weather as well. I am going to an open day today. No matter what I wear underneath I will still be wearing my frumpy parka because it is cool and breezy, and rain is forecast.

i see your point OP (and generally agree tbh) but i think what was always so great about british style in the past was the freedom, experimentation and acceptance of difference - the 60s mini skirts, the 70s punk, the 80s new romantics!! somewhere along the way we lost that; it’s a little sad. i do think there is more acceptance here of difference and that has perhaps made us too comfortable but it’s still preferable on the whole.

french, italian, spanish and greek women on the whole - to BROADLY GENERALISE - are still under certain pressures that over the years i’ve felt less here. there is a fat shaming culture, and an absolute expectation that one should wear make up and have hair/nails done. it feels a lot more restrictive from my experience and from speaking to euro friends

personally i think the scandis get it spot on a lot of the time - they dress practically for cold wet weather but don’t necessarily look dowdy or swamped. they’re a lot more confident bare faced but there’s certainly grooming and more importance placed on healthy diets/fitness. they tend to have a lot more disposable income to spend on classic well made pieces though!

btw i say this as someone who works in fashion and has close relationships with a lot of different european fashion brands

I hope I dress well, too, but this is a generalisation. My dps live in rural France and my dm always jokes that they are not particularly chic, unlike Paris, or the larger cities. Not all British dress badly, but a lot do, not all people in some other countries dress well, but a lot do.

I'm not sure it is a weather thing, as Paris has a similar climate and Scandinavia is colder and wetter, both are held up as particularly stylish.

X post, SecondTimeCharm said it much better than me.

During the heatwave this year DH's two younger (university-aged) female cousins came to visit us in London. Both commented on how much more stylish British women were than American. They themselves actually dressed very nicely IMO - shorts or slim trousers with a well fitting blouse or shirt, or a dress - but they said they get teased for it back home and people always ask why they're so dressed up. They said their peers wear jersey shorts, an oversized t-shirt, and trainers. Every day, all summer, unless they're going somewhere special. But commented that many more British women wore dresses, tops that weren't t-shirts, and shoes that weren't trainers. So I think it's relative.

That said, they did also seem oblivious to the British women in "athleisure" wear, or too-small, see-through leggings and an oversized, sparkly, cold shoulder top . So I think there's also an element of, when you're on holiday, expecting that everything's going to be wonderful and exotic and better, so looking for the things that are, and proving your expectations right.

When you go on holiday somewhere hot, you tend to pack what will be most useful/won't crease etc. Brits in Marbella will be living out of a suitcase of clothes in a place and climate they're not used to. Probably not a recipe for great style.