British style, or lack of it

[Sarcelle]

I haven’t been abroad for a while (annoyed with the whole palaver of flying and just been holidaying in UK.)

Recently went to Mallorca and spent a day in Palma. What struck me is that compared to a lot of Europeans, with exceptions, we dressed so badly compared to them. And we are less fit. Since I got back I have been really noticing, it’s like we don’t care, yet in the main we have a lot of the same shops as them.

This is an observation for both men and women and when I say British I mean every age and demographic that makes up modern Britain. We seem to wear a lot of easy clothes - sportswear, stretchy stuff. In Palma they were wearing great shirts, dresses, fitted trousers, great accessories. I was sitting next to a Spanish guy at lunch, plain blue shirt, well cut trousers, clutching a book - he just seemed to exude style in an effortless way.

I know there are exceptions but it just strikes me that the average British person just does not dress that stylishly. I include myself in that btw. Sometimes I do dress well, but never with the same casual elan, and it always gets a comment along the lines of - ooh, you look smart, where are you going, even if what I am wearing is very simple. Like I S this be doing something extraordinary to warrent dressing a bit more smartly.

We buy a lot of clothes in UK but perhaps that is the problem. We buy a lot of cheap clothes and don’t accessorise well. I don’t think money or lack of it is the reason. Lack of will and perhaps a bit of self-respect?

I am sure I am going to get flamed for this post but what do you think?

Such an interesting thread. I saw something similar recently about “glam shaming” - making another woman feel bad about dressing up.

I wonder if there is something of the old Sumptuary Laws left over in our collective psyche. We don’t like people to dress conspicuously more smartly than others in their class/socio-economic group. Also the concept of inverse snobbery is at play. Any time you see someone dressed like a tramp at Westfield Waitrose, you can fairly bet they live in a 7 or 8 figure house around the corner.

Interesting topic OP. Who says that you can't have good discussions on S & B?

Possibly related to this - nobody seems to iron anything anymore. I'm the only one of my friends who irons everyday clothes and not just the odd shirt for a job interview or something. - agree @Clockwork95 , I live in Germany and ironed shirts are the go to for many SAHM from my kindergarten.

Also agree with the fact that the Brits wear uniforms to school, so once we leave we go to town with colours and patterns, whereas Europeans develop a style from kindergarten onwards as they never wear uniforms even at private schools (apart from the British private school near to me).

Also pp mentioned earlier that Europeans tend to wear very neutral colours ( beige, white, blue and black) and largely their outfits consist of those colours. Maybe for an event there will be a splash of red (on an ironed shirt or shoes) or green, but that is rarely the main colour to the outfit. I had the delight in taking part in lots of the summer outdoor plays in the park etc which is totally tradition here (think Andre Rieu) and there again the colour rules were obeyed apart from by yours truly.

Someone mentioned upthread that going to soft play at 10am in Madrid (May I add some parts of Germany too?) that the women are immaculate. The same applies to early morning health visitor centres/kindergarten (nursery)/ non work events.

Very few people have mortgages and so they have more disposable income to spend on clothes but largely holidays. Also clothes in Germany tend to be expensive and often altered at the tailors. Another massively popular hobby is to make your own clothes, so all of not most of your clothes will fit your size. And this doesn't mean the odd kiddy dress, this is many adults I either work with or I work for make their own clothes. Clothes making a rather a hobby in the uk, growing but not the traditional norm.

DH and I have been together for nearly 15 years and I have never seen my SIL in jogging bottoms. Athleisure is here but only for the gym.

Forgot to say about makeup too. Women here look after themselves (a neighbour asked me if I was like "all those other British ladies" who just didn't care about their skin and faces!) make up is what is done, just as you do your hair or put shoes on, you put make up on. Admittedly their make up styles are not the most up to date (shadow effect on the eyes in the morning, or blue eyeshadow everyday) but being next to them without any make up on only highlights how little attention i May have paid to my face in the morning.

Tea I'm interested in what you say about the people being mortgage free. Why is that? Cheaper house prices or inheritance or something else?

The tailor thing is a good point. I would love to get some things tailored here but I've not been able to find anyone other than your basic 'take your trousers up' type set up.

@TeaAddict235
often altered at the tailors.

I must admit, I didn't know that this wasn't common in the UK.

I must however say, I know quite a few German women (especially the "alternative"/green kind) that don't seem to wear a lot / any makeup... But my sample size is probably influenced by the yoga/holistic health care/whatever centre practically next door

I do think there are regional differences but it ultimately still depends on the people and their lifestyle choices...

I'd like to bring ironing into the equation. Lycra and jeans don't need ironing. Do women on the continent (😃) send theirs out?

I have plenty of stylish clothes that go unworn for months because I just cannot be arsed to iron. Crisp white shirts, cotton skirts and dresses all need ironing. Who does their ironing??

@tentative3 Germans largely rent. They (regionally based and not valid for München or Berlin) often live in those multigenerational houses (2 or 3 Appartements in the same building) as their parents if they stay in the same town. Or they rent apartments whereby the rent laws favour the tenants and the rents can be the same for years (think decades as in the case for my MIL). So say if your rent costs you about 400€ (ab out £320) a month in a town centre and your company pays for your train/bus ticket (again the norm) and you get a 13th salary (another norm) you can spend more on clothes or holidays like the average German

I am not keen on ironing I will hold my hands up to that,
Also avoid anythgn handwash.

I do iron my work clothes, that's presumabyl whenI achieve the smart, sharp look mentioned earlier

I saw a picture recently of my grandma on the beach in the 60's. She looked feckin amazing. High waisted shorts, neat little blouse type top on, slim, gorgeous. And she wasn't excessively glam!

We've seen a demise since then. People used to wear a hat to go shopping!

I feel remarkably stupid for not twigging it was renting that gives the disposable income makes sense.

Tailoring is a big thing here. I kid you not.

@PamsterWheel i do most of my own ironing. Work stuff and DH's work stuff we take to the dry cleaners as DH's work pays for it(!) This must be a tax thing really as so many people we know told us about finding out about it when we moved back here and DH wasn't really sure that it still operated. But essentially if you wear clothes for work and they are essential to your business or company then the company has to pay / cover some of the care costs, and that is essentially dry cleaning / ironing/ tailoring.

Don't feel stupid @tentative3 Life over here makes me realise how much we have all different cultural relationships with money. Germans prioritise holidays and cars. Brits prioritise mortgages and education with their expenses.

Wait, what tea ? Is drycleaning tax deductable in the UK or are you talking about when you were abroad?

in the main, cheap clothes look cheap when viewed up close.

I agree, but sites like iKrush and BooHoo do a roaring trade in cheap and tacky-looking outfits. But that is the other end of the British fashion spectrum. I've not spotted similarly dressed women on the continent, though they must exist.

@PamsterWheel I'm in Germany. Bless you. It's a deductible cost here. But I actually like ironing. It's my ME time listening to podcasts in peace!

I live in an affluent German city, and while many people dress expensively and well, it’s so BORING. Acres of beige cashmere each way you turn. Generally the German approach is to spend money on classics that will last and last, but of course that means mainly opting for neutral colours, very conservative designs, etc. Having said that, Primark has recently opened up a store here and it’s always packed, as is TK Maxx and H&M. Perhaps I’m not the only one bored of tasteful beige cashmere.

Incidentally, one of the most stylish women I know here is a plus sized Brit. She dresses beautifully.

Washing of uniform attracts tax relief here too.

www.gov.uk/guidance/job-expenses-for-uniforms-work-clothing-and-tools

But it's strictly uniform.

Back on topic, I must confess to also being pretty slack about ironing. But I do see the difference when I do it. I also do notice as a fairly short, somewhat chunky person with big boobs that money spent on better quality clothes is well worth it; I just can't get away with clothes in the same way my more lithe friends can. The problem with that is not that I'm unwilling, it's just finding something I like, that suits me, is good quality, but that I can still afford. I've regretted the odd purchase before.

don't really understand the thing about not dressing up = disrespecting people TBH so I expect I'm not going to understand where you're coming from!

Really? So if your accountant looked like Vicky Pollard you'd be OK with that

I have noticed that French women wear clothes that genuinely fit their bodies. They don't fuck about with their hair too much. And they wear quality shoes and accessories.

I was in a shopping centre in Northern Ireland recently (I know it isn't exactly Paris) and everyone-everyone- was wearing jeans, hoody, tatty coat. I thought it was depressing.

Vicky pollard was a bloke doing a btchy impression of a teen girl iirc , I didn't watch little Britain so don't remember it that well.

Yes I would bat an eyelid if my accountant was a bloke doing that! But outs not that likely especially as I don't have an accountant!

it was a nasty classist sexist thing that wasn't it?!

I always think British women do dress up better than almost anyone. The only thing I worry about is everyone having the same (very nice) dresses - freaks me out!

I loathe the athleisure wear for daily wear. It feels lazy to me. Leggings are not clothes. Just my opinion though, as a too fat to wear them middle aged woman.

I have to say I find it funny when people say real leather shoes. I know exactly what is meant, but so many fashion items are not, nor do they pretend to be real leather.

British men, do not dress nearly as well as the women, I think. That is a real difference I can see between them and European men. Trackie bottoms (eek) and joggers are just sad. Unless for sport.

I don't care if that all makes me sound snobby, it is how I feel.

I resent the implication that stylishness is automatically commensurate with size.

Nobody's saying that at all.

Being slim gives you an automatic advantage, that's all - but plenty of slim people absolutely squander that advantage. Just as many overweight people look great.

There's no correlation, per se.

I find it interesting to read some of the very defensive replies on this thread.

People can wear what they want. And they can certainly prioritise comfort over style, if they wish. That's a choice each individual is free to make. But why get all aerated - if you're happy in your comfy clothes, and couldn't care less about being or looking stylish, then why be so insulted?

Yes, on the expensive threads, it was agreed that being overweight doesn't mean you can't look good.

What does matter is that if your measurements say you are a 14, then you probably look better in a 16 t shirt than a 14. Because it's not going to cling and show your rolls. (I am currently, according to shop sizing madness, a 12, and my t-shirts are 16 if they are M&S and 18 if they are Primark) And look a damn sight better skimming my rolls than accentuating them. (In bloody Zara with it's opposite-to-vanity-sizing, I am an XXL )

Italian women definitely outsource their ironing. Either their mother comes in daily to do it, or a woman does it as part of the cleaning, or a second ironing woman comes in. Friends of mine who are housewives have a cleaner and an ironer come in. And these aren't mega-rich people, just women who prefer to give 5 euro an hour to someone else to iron their dh's shirts.

Talking of which, one thing which look utterly foul- Italian men and their Early Learning Centre/Tweenie audition colour schemes. Come the summer they look like they got dressed in the dark. I often just look at dp in the supermarket and he'll go "I know, I know" A pink shirt matched with yellow trousers. An orange jacket with a green shirt and red trousers. They certainly don't go for the Gillette airline pilot school of dressing and they look bloody ridiculous.

The woman are not ubiquitously stylish either. Summer hits and it's tight white skinnies for everyone together with resplendent bling.

I think the school uniform analogy is a red herring- teenagers the world over are a big herd and by and large follow each other. Italish dd aged 14 has just gone out of the door in a logo t shirt, skinnies and Vans. And 22 other kids in her class will be in the same "uniform" Come the weekend she'll be in a cold shoulder top and skinnies.

What DowagerCuntess said.

Of course people can wear what they want. I personally prefer to aim for stylish and comfortable, if possible and would rather spend my money on items that fit me well, look good and give me joy to wear as well as comfort and practicality. I am interested in style and fashion that's why I'm posting in style & beauty.

I do like that apparently effortless European look that the op is talking about and although it's a long time since I've been to Palma, I remember the people looking very stylish there. I also like to combine it with a little bit of British individuality too, which is really about personal style. I do prefer the attitude of buying less, but better clothes, rather than lots of mish mash items, as a pp said upthread.

I can tell which gate at airports fly to the UK. Usually its where the people are the worst dressed, mostly overweight, either cant be bothered with makeup or too much makeuo, tattooed, and sunburned. Yes, we dress badly unfortunately.