🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Happy Snail Year, Bring Spoons!

[botemp]

Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6 Thread 7 Thread 8 Thread 9 Thread 10

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. In order to make use of the below form and join in I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

NEWish since previous threads:

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

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JANUARY 2018: Thread 11! we're getting old. A recap of The Snailies categories for those still meaning to get round to them:

🐌🐌 THE SNAILIES 2017 🐌🐌

The Well Hello There - newest and latest find that gets your motor running

The Flusher- money spent on this product would have been better put to use by flushing it down the toilet

The Jack & Rose- the product you’ll never let go of because there’s plenty of fucking space for the two of you on that piece of wood. Damn you, James Cameron, for breaking my poor little tween heart.

The LTB- it all seemed so promising, everything was going so great, then they turned out to be a narcissist gaslighting bastard

The Child Prodigy- that one product that’s annoyingly good and isn’t afraid to be smug about it

The Worker Bee- never the centre of attention but has been steadily chugging along like no other

The Troll- the one where you repeatedly asked, ‘Is this doing anything?’, but continued to use it anyway…

The Flabbergaster- that one product or technique that wasn’t really supposed to be used like that or delivered well beyond your non-existent expectations

The Sinner- oh, admit it because we’re all guilty of it, what did you do or use that wasn’t all that sensible like take an acid bath and had the disastrous results you really knew to expect

Thanks Bo. I await your review of the Medik-8. Night x

I hope you're soon on the mend Pupsie

pupsie I've just finished watching The Truth about looking good.

The most interesting thing about it for me is that my DM used Cliniques Dramatically different moisturing lotion for years and now just uses the Nivea soft and she looks 20 younger. So it was interesting when they said that moisturising alone makes no difference although thats the only product she uses in her skin care routine, she even uses Nivea soft to remove her make up.

I'm not jealous at all with my reactive skin
However she has worn foundation every single day of her life, so I'm guessing the spf in that has gone towards maintaining her skin.

Bo yes this particular doc is so lovely, there's lots of different docs in my surgery and luckily only 2 I have not liked so far! But I always try to book with this particular one as she's so understanding

Thanks Enid.

Interesting Tant. I will finish the program today. I think I had the epiphany re moisturises when I started this thread originally; what actual ingredients should I be including in my routine. My moisturisers are the cheapest products I use I guess.

I can't find my post about the doctor update 🤔 it's disappeared 😱

Hello

I'm a long time lurker, these threads and the info sheets have been a bit of a revelation to me over the past month or two.

I've been relatively lucky with my skin so far, but at 33, a couple of fine lines have alerted me to the fact that I have to up my game to help maintain my skin in the long term! I would be really grateful if you could take a look at my current routine to see where I go next.

I'd say I have normal to slightly combination skin with a disposition towards dehydration in winter. My biggest issues are dehydration and sensitivity to certain products (I think retinol and products that are overly rich or mega-exfoliating) that bring me out in a rash on my cheeks. My skin is usually quite clear, I only get the very occasional hormonal spot.

AM:

• Wash face (just water)
• Serum: currently trying out Avene's hydrating intense serum and like it a lot. Usually alternate between two of my fail-safe options: Avene Hydrance Optimale Serum and the Vichy Aqua Hydrating Serum
• Moisturiser: Avene Hydrance Optimale Riche (alternate with the Legere/Light version in summer)
• SPF: Avene Factor 50 cream (the one in the orange tube). It is a fairly thick consistency but it sinks in and my sensitive skin gets on with it. Have only recently started using sunscreen daily as I was one of those people who assumed SPF in your makeup was enough...

PM:

• Cleanser: Clinque Facial Soap Extra Mild (this is not the horrible bar soap! Its more of a cleansing lotion that you wash off. Pretty gentle and not drying)
• Toner: Clinique Clarifying Lotion 1 (the milder one) - I use a small amount of this on a cotton pad. My skin seems to like it, but I'm a bit concerned that alcohol denat is the second ingredient!
• Serum: Estee Lauder Advanced Night Repair (my old faithful. My skin quickly looks dull and dehydrated without it)
• Eye cream : Estee Lauder ANR Eye Cream. I know a lot of people think eye creams are a waste of money, but I always have several pots of this as my mum always buys me the kits with the serum and eye cream for my birthday, Xmas etc! So I'm going to use it and hope it works to prevent at least some crinkles
• Night balm with Retinaldehyde : Avene PhysioLift Night Balm. Dr. Sam Bunting recommends this for people who are particularly sensitive to retinol products, as it contains the milder (but effective) derivative retinaldehyde, alongside other ingredients such as hylaronic acid. So I've recently been slowly adding this to my routine - currently using twice a week and I hope to build this up to every second night.
• Moisturiser: Avene Hydrance Optimale Riche again

Sorry I realise that's pretty long . I do go on a bit! I guess my main areas of concern/that I want to work on this year can be summarised as:

• Do I have to double cleanse? I find it a cumbersome and drying. My skins feels clean when I use my lotion/wash as a single cleanse. However, I worry I missing something I can't see IYKWIM?
• Am I ruining my skin by using my Clinique toner?
• Should I look to progress to a retinol over time? Even the retinaldehyde in the night balm made me flaky and irritated the first couple of times I used it. It has settled now and my skin looks great at the moment.
• I'm looking to add Vitamin C to my AM routine but worried about it irritating my skin in combination with the retinaldehyde in the evening.

The more I learn the more questions I have it seems...! Thanks for your patience

I'm having problems adding the BR P50 to my basket on the Skincity.se site - it looks like I can only add it to my basket if the site settings are set to charge me in krona. I get an error message if they are in Euros, it says they can't ship to the UK. Every time I've managed to add it to the basket, & get partway through checkout, the site changes it to Euros & clears my basket! Has anyone else has this!? And how did you sort it... am I missing something - it's infuriating!

The post is there, mint, I can see it.

Yes, Pupsie, I remember everyone kept asking about moisturisers early on, and it was doing my head in as moisturisers are just dull afterthoughts to me. I really can't care all that much about them and they're actually the thing I've had most product reaction issues with. I do have to say, though bought completely on a whim, I'm really liking the LRP Toleriane Ultra Nuit currently.

Welcome, Yazoop! If dehydration is an issue I'd definitely be avoiding products with high alcohol contents. Double cleansing really is something to consider in relation to what you're taking off and the cleanser you're using to do so. I only DC if I've used a lot of sunsceen throughout the day or am wearing base makeup.

Retinaldehyde can still be irritating so it's probably worth exploring less sensitising versions in that case, they're generally more expensive though. At a lower price point TO AR 2% may be ok though, although my experience with it has been very tepid. If you're worried about Vit C irritation I'd look at one of the derivates rather than L-AA.

Joz, I dont' know if IIRC but I think you have to use the Swedish site in Swedish.

Hello yazoop long time lurker! Sounds like you’ve got a good routine going with mostly products you like. I’d just echo what Bo said. The Clinique toner is a mild exfoliant but as you recognise it has alcohol as second ingredient so if you can find alternative without alcohol that would be better. A liquid exfoliant definitely preferable to a scub type that you (and all of us) should avoid. Personally, I double cleanse every night, first with an oil or wash off balm cleanser then La Roche Posay hydrating cleanser or dermo cleanse, which is easy to buy- Boots sell that one and it tends to be favoured by drier skins. I wear sunscreen every day and make up. I also have oily skin and I think double cleansing just works for me.

Bo I’ll be very interested to hear your experience of the medik 8 retinol. I saw Dr Sam mentioning that one. Looks very interesting. I asked a few pages back about introducing P50. Sales assistant said use daily for 50 days . Can you advise and and can I continue retinoid? She advised no retinoid/retinol.

My skincare plans this year are to introduce P50, find a more effective Vitamin C product and a more effective retinol/retinoid.

Yes, it's the standard advice at BR to only use P50. I've used it with OTC Retinols on alternating nights (2-3x a week). I'm not sure how it would be with Differin, do you have a lot of exfoliation happening from that, if so I'd be really cautious with building up frequency.

Yes, the Medik8 R-R was already on my radar but I was happy to see Dr. Sam giving the seal of approval as it's pretty rare for Derms to get behind the new-gen retinols. I know my skin responds well to R-R so it makes the high price tag less of a gamble and I'm curious how it compares to the Verso.

I saw Dr. Sam has just posted a video on disclosure and brands she works with (have yet to watch). Am now wondering if that's in response to that CH post.

Thanks for that.

My ears pricked up when you mentioned the medik8 RR Bo but I got a bit of sticker shock when I saw the price. I would happily pay that if it worked but given my history of retinol/retinoid products ‘not really doing much’ it would be a high price to pay for little to no results. I’ll wait for your review and have another think.

JDSTER I’ve dropped differin since I started using the PC BHA as was worried about my face falling off but I’ll introduce it back in every other night in another week or so. I think the P50 is a lot stronger than PC though isn’t it? I’ve looked into it but no way of getting hold of it unless I tackle the Swedish speaking site that poor Joz is battling with!

Hi Yazoop I third ditching the Clinique toner, as sounds like that could be causing the dehydration you mention & I think there are much better acid/exfoliating toners out there now.

user I’ll be happy to pay for medik 8 if it works. I’ve looked at reviews previously which look promising. I don’t want my face falling off with P50 so I’ll be careful. I got mine a few months ago when I was in London from Liberty. I’ll report back of course once I start using it (after hols next month)

Nope, still not working. Website is in Swedish, autotranslate is off. The previous order says I paid in Euros, but now I can't as they won't export BR to UK if I pay in Euros... I'm out of ideas. Annoying.

Yazoop - I also recommend ditching the Clinique toner. Can't comment on the facial soap, but their toner made my face properly sting, every time I used it. And that was the super mild one... The next one up (slightly less mild, ironically) wasn't quite so sting-y but it made my face feel very tight & it would feel quite oily by midday. It was obviously stripping all the oil off & making my skin overreact. I dread to think what they put in their skincare stuff, for the mild range to have to done that to me.
Personally, I use pure rose water as toner. Very nice. I pay about £19 for a litre at a good aromatherapist shop. Orange flower water is supposed to be good too - both smell divine to use, very mild & calming for sensitive skin I believe.

Due to the love for EH Moringa balm looking at you enid I braved using it again tonight (we'll see if I still get spots on my jawline from it) because like you said it really just is sooooo luxurious to use.

I am pondering what retinol to invest in once my TO 2% retinoid empties

Any suggestions for products that really have made a noticable difference?

Thanks, botemp, JDSTER, userallusedup, and Jozxyqk! Some really helpful information there.

I think it is pretty clear I need to step. away. from. the. toner.

Interesting about the double cleanse. I tend to put on SPF only in the morning, unless a hot day in summer, as I'm indoors a lot and I don't sweat very much. On an everyday basis, I use a small amount of tinted moisturiser rather than foundation, unless I'm going out for the evening. So I think my single cleanse might be ok for everyday, as it seems to be getting everything off, but it might be wise to look at introducing a double cleanse for days I use more or heavier products on my face.

In terms of the retinaldehyde, botemp, it did irritate me when I first started using it but seems to be fine now and I think I can see some positive effect already from using the night balm - my skin is looking fuller and healthier, although I guess it is too early to know its definitely the balm (like everyone else in the world, I am eating better and drinking much less now it is no longer December , so this could be having a positive effect on my skin, too!). So I'm going to continue to monitor it over the next few weeks.

Yazoop If you step away from the toner, it doesn't mean you have to step away from toning completely.

I've been using a Korean style toner (Pyunkang Yul Essence Toner) but there are lots of others. Fabulous stuff and has really helped to hydrate my dry/dehydrated skin. Getting a bit twitchy now it 2/3 empty, must order more!

bagel you’ve reminded me I must order another Biore brightening SPF from Japan as probably half way through last bottle.

Tant my list of retinol products that I've personally tried is very short. I started with Verso and continued to use that with good results until TO came out. I've used the 5% in Squalane and the 2% one that's been renamed now but it was Advanced Retinoid Complex before I think, very tepid about both of those.

Generally, the ones that always came up on top were:

The Skinceuticals 0.3 (though I think you have to start with a lower strength and build up to that one)

The Paula's Choice Retinol in the purple airt tight dispenser I think it's 1%

The LRP Redermic (but I think predominantly considered a good for the money product rather than matching the above)

I caught up with the BBC program this morning, it was quite simplistic I felt, could really all have been said in about five minutes and I thought it was very misleading on the Retinol front. Especially since it used Tretinoin as the proven science with all the clinical data to then say Retinol was the viable alternative and would give the same results. That's not exactly factual at all, and as I've mentioned here previously the % claims on OTC retinol products mean nothing and certainly don't indicate any product efficacy.

I agree Bo the program was very disappointing. They could have done so much more with it. Totally agree too about moisturiser. For me moisturiser is about comfort really.

I have to say there's been very few products that have actually made a visible difference to my skin, which is annoying as you really don't know if something is a waste of money or not. Not when 90% of things make little difference.

It's part and parcel of having"normal" skin. Everything is fine, nothing gives me spots, does anything work? Who knows???

Alpha H Liquid Gold has made my skin look polished but Im not a big fan of the alcohol fumes so rarely use it .

I do remember getting that same polished look from the Lacura Q10 night cream, but I don't use it anymore as I think there's some mild retinol derivative in it and I'm using TO Retinoid 5%. Makes me wonder if I should just go back to it afterwards, even though I'm sure it's much much weaker than TO one.