Bloggers and brands 2.

[Merriboo]

continuing the discussion from the previous thread about transparency and disclosure (or lack of) by bloggers

Watching her insta stories today though it’s quievsad that she references the people who made comments like hold your middle finger higher as bright intelligent followers
Really??!!!!
I think it’s disrespectful and conceited to think that on a public social media forum you aren’t allowed to politely ask a comment that may not follow the other sycophantic ones

Pleasesendwine Yes - completely agree. I hadn't seen the post yesterday and only went to investigate after watching her stories this morning. It was very gushing about the sycophants, saying how lovely they were. I don't think it is either lovely nor warranted to pile on to one poster who asks a genuine question with a genuine concern. The poster was not disrespectful. She raised the issue politely and without any rhetoric that could remotely be described as an "attack". It is just weird to me that grown women would behave this way. I found myself thinking "who made you her spokesperson?" And then the self-congratulatory banter & metaphoric high-giving that went on between them all for having put this person in her place

Was gonna look and then remembered oh yeah, Chloe blocked me a while back. I can't even remember why, I think I politely objected to some language she used on someone else's feed to describe other women. I had actually already unfollowed her as it happens but now I can't even find her on Search. She's disappeared!

Bit off topic but every vlogger I'm watching on you tube is busy flashing their method cleaning spray in my face. Is this just coincidence or have they all been gifted one to show off?

Yes, the 'don't like, don't read' mantra is hugely frustrating and tedious, but I would say it goes both ways. I feel Rosie is free to make her objections on these threads for us to hear/challenge so long as it leads to further discussion but she swiftly was delivered a similar response of 'don't like, get off the thread'.

ktay, is that for real? Are they actually charging people to come to that is the Townhall Hotel actually a fantastic London venue? Surely they could have spent a fiver on fiverr and got themselves a decent graphic designer to make something better than that

In the nicest possible way I think that a lot of the fans of influencers aren't in the highest demograph regarding intelligence hence the mob mentality when someone dares to question anything. I think these are the ones that 'influencers' have the most influence over; they need to stay 'on trend' with women who appear to 'have it all', whether that is high street jeans, washing up liquid or whatever else they are advertising.

I read some of the gushing 'you are sooooo amazing/funny and such an amaaaazing parent' and just think

wisteria, I'd like to see some stats to back up such a sweeping generalisation tbh. There have been plenty of articulate (and seemingly intelligent) women on here describing how they've felt suckered in by it all. The flimsy bags with initials springing to mind, most recently. To write off anyone that enjoys all this stuff and buys into it as a thicko is a bit harsh, and it doesn't say much either as all forms of advertising are more effective on those who are less informed, which says nothing about education, IQ levels, etc.

I think it's a critical thinking issue, rather than intelligence per se (they do often go hand in hand, to be fair to wisteria). These threads have demonstrated really well how easy it is to take things at face value until you understand what is actually going on.

'in the nicest possible way'. You're certainly proof that when people say that, they generally mean entirely the opposite. Plenty of evidence on both these threads that there are plenty of 'nasty, mean-girl comments' here as well. I've read the posts on that particular issue on the CLTS's insta page and the lady in question gave as good as she got and was not, contrary to what you say, that polite - she was deliberately needling CLTS. Perhaps CLTS's followers were just trying to lend support? Surely followers are fans and therefore follow because they like the content? It would therefore make sense that they defend CLTS. I would hardly call it an 'attack'. And as for don't like, don't follow - what on earth is wrong with that line of thought? If you follow something you disapprove of or don't like, can you explain to me why you bother following it? Surely someone only follows because they enjoy and like the blogger or the instagram acount. Or do they follow just to be able to criticise and sneer? Don't like, don't follow is not a cop out, it's just common sense.

She was just asking questions as far as I could see. Not needling. I think it takes a lot of guts now to ask someone on IG a simple question about gifting - because you know now there will be inevitable onslaught from the followers who don't approve. That poster was called a hater, told she was jealous, called a troll and told to p*ss off, told to delete her IG account, all for asking a simple question. CLTS has been very inconsistent on this issue, first saying she doesn't "like" the #gift disclosure, now flip flopping to apparently always having been transparent (she edited that post to show the gear was gifted by HOF after it was posted). I get the impression that she doesn't approach what she is doing in such an overtly commercial way as other bloggers are doing, but she is still featuring a lot of gear that isn't disclosed. The point is, people shouldn't have to ask.

According to her stories though her followers are “bright kind eloquent and lovely” for jumping to her defence. Errrr ok then 😳

SM in general has become (or maybe always was?) incredibly tribal and this is not a good thing in my opinion, as only one point of view is tolerated. People exist in their particular echo chamber and tend not to look outside of that. It really stifles debate and things are generally seen as black or white. We see this everyday now with regards to Brexit and politics in general. There should be absolutely no space for trolls or abuse, but when we get to a point when we can no longer engage in a reasoned and calm debate or ask a question we are in trouble. And when it comes to Fashion & Beauty surely these things should be fun, make us potentially feel better about ourselves etc etc. and not end up in name calling on someone's IG.

botemp I don't have stats because I said that is what I think, not an actual fact. In the nicest possible way, because I really don't mean to be nasty; the hunners, fawners, well jellers and haterz don't seem to be that bright. I am merely basing that on the comments they write. I am speaking generally about the influencers, I don't know any of the ones referred to on the last few posts.

I don't follow any of the aforementioned either, just to clarify.

I continue to be bemused by the whole "if you don't like it, don't follow it" argument. Really? So it's an echo chamber or nothing. No wonder people are concerned about young people and social media if this is the way it is handled. It is important to question, challenge and even disagree at times and a good blogger should be able to respond accordingly. I don't follow any of the Insta mums but I do look at some of them from time to time. My choice. As is my right to an opinion.

Just read the comments on CLTS. Well done that person who asked those pertinent questions! It was hardly needling. Am also bored of being told to 'just unfollow' and agree with what everyone else has said. Do 'influencers' get a free pass on accountability?

I'm also getting fed up of the 'I only promote brands I believe in' schtick (For instance, as I mentioned upthread, several of the Insta mamas were promoting a babysitting app recently. I absolutely do not think that any of them 'believe' that finding a babysitter through a phone app is a good idea) and somone on CLTS said that if Chloe doesn't like something she's been gifted, she sends it back. Aye, I bet she does 🙄

I was one of the ones pulled in by the "gifting".
I love Midlifechic, and have followed her from the beginning, but i have been surprised at the number of [g]'s she now uses when showing her outfits etc.

I don't like and I don't follow so I don't comment on any of them individually. I still have opinions and concerns as I expressed on the last page.

I don't condone online aggression or harassment and I haven't seen the Insta page concerned. But I do know that, if a member of the public was needling me and I was rude back, my feet wouldn't touch the ground. It's part and parcel of pretty much any job.

I read a lot of blogs and follow a lot of bloggers on Instagram. The non-disclosure thing wholly irks me. I work in marketing and consider myself pretty savvy. It’s not that I feel deceived or lied to, because I generally know the score, more just that they should disclose as a matter of course. Saying “just unfollow if you don’t like it” is nonsense. I wonder what’s declared in terms of earnings? (I have no idea how gifts and trips work, but presumably paid partnerships count as income and would be subject to tax/other deductions)

If a disenchanted follower X reels off a list of things they don't like about blogger Y, like chewing food before starting an insta story, they've 'changed', they're flaunting their wealth, or any other arbitrary reason that only seems to affect only disenchanted follower X, then sure 'don't like, don't read' is a perfectly valid response as there's an obvious mismatch between blogger and follower.

However, if it's concerned follower X asking questions, about say transparency, or gifted items not being presented as such, the promotion of 'contraception' devices as viable alternatives to ones a GP would prescribe, questionable diet advice, etc. which have the potential affect more than just concerned follower X, as in the entire following and well beyond that, then 'don't like, don't read' just doesn't cut it.

The influencer currency is trust, a trust that is based on a discourse of honesty between influencers and influencees, if bloggers/influencers/whatever are seen to be abusing that trust they should be prepared to defend/clarify their positions, not silence the discussion, and certainly not utilise their following as foot soldiers whilst evading accountability.

@botemp that flyer is indeed for real 😬 I'd never heard of the venue but the reviews look good.

You’ll never hear a decent journalist doing a story about the fact they’re at a press conference, or about the fact they’ve just received a press release (unless it’s genuinely earth-shattering news) because the story should never be about the journalist, it should be about what’s actually happened to warrant the press conference in the first place.

Similarly, once you get bloggers talking about going to press launches or special events run by brands, you can see it’s the beginning of the end for them. If the clothes can’t speak for themselves, then there’s no story.

If I were a fashion blogger, I’d ignore the invites, get myself down to the little shops I knew or smaller chains or just genuinely pop into Debenhams and uncover some real hidden gems. People are quickly tiring of seeing the same old shite from Hush or &OtherStories all over the blogs. Anyone can do that. It won’t be long till the bubble bursts for so many of these women, which is a shame because some of them started out pretty well.

But blogging isn't journalism. Can you really compare them. The whole nature of it is you are the story surely?

While they may have started as bloggers and still do blog the insta stories are a totally new way of communication.

That’s true, but the story started off as being about them being Mum on the School run, Mum on maternity leave juggling a reduced budget, Mum who was a part time midwife etc etc. All stuff people could relate to. When they morph into being a paid for fashion writer (or just basically a human billboard in some cases) and life being about press launches and new product launches etc then unless they carry on with the bits that made them interesting in the first place, they will probably lose appeal to some of the people who started following initially. Probably why some of them are reluctant to disclose as well so they can keep the facade going that the story hasn’t changed.

The thing with attending a press launch or preview & storying about it is that I can’t imagine that bloggers are going to be as honest as they were when they started. I expect gushing hyperbole from a fashion editor who’s been gifted, wined & dined. What I want from a blogger is a reality check. For example, someone I follow storied about a preview & featured the most hideous pieces. I’ve created bespoke pieces for this person (I don’t gift anything BTW, nor do I offer blogger discounts...for the sake of transparency )& know that what they featured is a million miles from their actual style. It just irks me as I see it as raising a question mark over their integrity. Blogging used to be about personal recommendation based on their real experience. Now it just feels a bit grabby.