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Bloggers and brands 2.

999 replies

Merriboo · 18/12/2017 20:33

continuing the discussion from the previous thread about transparency and disclosure (or lack of) by bloggers

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Ithasbeenalongtime · 03/02/2018 19:19

I would think the distaste for #gifted has to be because it would stuff up their business model which is based on presenting a glossy, distorted view of reality. Social media is unhealthy because it fuels an aspirational lifestyle which is out of reach for many people. Tagging stuff as gifted strips away the smoke and mirrors and enables you to see it for what it is - an advert. There can't really be any other valid reason, because as DMBL has shown, its perfectly possible to provide transparent disclosure without detracting from the images and captions. Her followers have continued to grow steadily since she put more info in so its not putting anyone off. Anyway, they know where we are if they want to provide a different explanation but I'm sticking with this one Grin.

Mrsdoubleskulls · 03/02/2018 20:19

I agree, ithasbeen. Even if “they” say they have no obligation to promote the business (as someone on this thread previously stated), a gift is still an item/experience they haven’t paid for, and as such, should be treated as a promotion of said business. Plus, I really can’t believe a business would send out gifts without the hope of a mention. Isn’t that why they have sent the product out? The expectation of a mention on a popular account.

And agree about DMBL40. She has embraced the transparent tagging, and continues to produce entertaining and relevant content.

scampiesandchips · 03/02/2018 21:39

You've nailed it there, @Ithasbeenalongtime.

FleaRiddenScruffBag · 04/02/2018 11:42

Interesting read in today's Sunday Times interview with Billie Piper.......

She’s weary of “the whole sisterhood thing” on Instagram. “Or, at least, I have my reservations,” she says carefully. “Under the guise of being all supportive and there for each other, women can be very judgy and competitive, especially on social media. The emotions are the same, it’s just the semantics that have changed.......

I have never bought into this whole notion of women supporting women regardless, I am much more comfortable with supporting people who are doing the right thing. I really do feel the judgy/competitive side to Insta. Scares me (quite) a bit.

botemp · 04/02/2018 12:31

Interesting Flea, is that behind the paywall? Made me think of a Robert Montgomery piece (have attached a pic), despite being about advertising, quite apt for this thread really. Or perhaps quite apt as the line between ad/insta is hardly discernible now.

WRT to the #gifted dislike, I think there's also an element of engagement levels that play into it. If they're doing this professionally they will be constantly monitoring stats (as an aside, I'd love to see the long-term MH impact of that) and by default ads will be low in engagement, we're all very eager to click on skip or hide ad when the option is available. The impact may not be as high with #gift but it will certainly be less than non #gift posts, and as the commonality of #gift becomes more widespread, the more like #ad it will become. These stats will invariably impact their bottom line for paid work, they need the clicks, the views, the likes, the comments, etc. because that's what makes up their bottom line.

Bloggers and brands 2.
FleaRiddenScruffBag · 04/02/2018 12:32

And also interested to understand the difference between #ad and #gifted.

FleaRiddenScruffBag · 04/02/2018 12:37

Bo - yes, it is behind a paywall. She also goes on to say this which really resonates with me, also the mother of boys.

......“Look, I value my friendships with women, but I value friendships with men, too,” she continues. “I’m bringing up two boys, after all. And I’m also not sure how much we have moved on anyway. A lot of social media is about women looking really oversexed. That doesn’t feel like feminism to me. Like, this whole thing of ‘I’m liberated enough to bare my arse’ doesn’t remotely cut it with me.”

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 04/02/2018 12:38

'Gifted" is a freebie, "ad" is a paid for post, I think, but I might be wrong and am happy to be corrected.

One that really puzzles me though is "sent". Or" kindly sent".

Ithasbeenalongtime · 04/02/2018 12:46

Oh that quote @botemp!

I think the differentiation is that #ad is paid for by the brand and they have some editorial control over the content. The bloggers (at least some of them, some of the time) appear to be following the ASA guidance that this needs to be disclosed.

#gift doesn't fall under the ASA rules because the brand doesn't have editorial control, so this is the fuzzy area where bloggers have interpreted this as they don't have to tell you. IMO they fall under more general CMA rules around consumer protection where consumers need to be aware if a blogger's opinion is being influenced by the fact that they were paid (monetary or in kind) to feature something.

That's how I understand it anyway.

PavlovaPrincess · 04/02/2018 12:46

I think 'kindly sent' is the same as 'gifted'. Either of those means they haven't paid for it.

See MOD's post upthread about someone 'kindly sending' her some clothes for free the other day, apparently with no expectation of receiving any publicity from it.

WRT to the #gifted dislike, I think there's also an element of engagement levels that play into

Also, if they don't use a gifted hashtag, then their feed won't look like a constant stream of adverts. It's totally disingenuous.

Ithasbeenalongtime · 04/02/2018 12:50

I now always read "sent" as gifted, same as "thank you XX brand!". The reality is probably a lot of work going on behind the scenes before those boxes plop onto their doormat. All part of the smoke and mirrors!

botemp · 04/02/2018 12:54

I assume 'sent' is either, requested by blogger without guaranteed exposure, company sends it. Or company offers products blogger may be interested in without demands for guaranteed exposure, blogger says yes to a specific thing.

There was a link to a podcast awhile back, interview with a lawyer who had a really handy flowchart to test whether things are #ad or not by ASA standards. I presume anything not #ad, but a whole grey area of shows up on my doorstep to paid in kind covers #gift and #sent.

Is there a comment section, Flea? Curious about general response to that.The self-objectification aspect of it has always puzzled me too, I personally don't read it as empowerment at all. Sex sells, especially on a platform like Instagram, different medium, same old message.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 04/02/2018 12:56

We shouldn’t have to guess though.
It has to be clear.

AdidasGirl · 04/02/2018 12:59

I'm another who just thinks every time they say "Sent" or "Kindly Sent" it was a freebie.
I feel the same when the 'influencers' ask for their followers opinions on things.
Note that it's never about anything small.
It's always about large items such as washing machines, dishwashers,cars and holidays.
I see that as seeking a brand to #gift that to them not really wanting an opinion.

botemp · 04/02/2018 13:04

I suggest they introduce the #boughtitwithmyownmoney tag instead of #gift and just use that on anything applicable. Will stop their feed looking like a constant ad machine and surely save them a shitload of time tagging everything Wink

scampiesandchips · 04/02/2018 13:53

Oh could you imagine that Grin #boughtwithmyownmoney would have the Insta clan squirming so much they'd turn inside out.

If I remember correctly, SV started a tongue-in-cheek 'I paid for this' hashtag following the Instamum thread furore. I'm not sure if she still uses it.

FleaRiddenScruffBag · 04/02/2018 15:20

Not many comments Bo - though I was expecting her to get a slating for daring to challenge the sisterhood! This whole Insta moment really has me a bit baffled - though I concede that, in my late 40s, I am not their target audience. What MidlifeChic does well on her blog is promote a conversation - a real exchange. Insta frustrates me with its reliance on fan girl beying and rounding on anyone who wants to question/challenge or, god forbid, disagree. Since when did asking a question make you a "hater" boak or jealous. I think the most important thing I have taken from these threads is the wise reminder from someone upthread that these Insta women are not our friends, they do not want to create a "sisterhood" or a conversation boak again, they have just created a sales platform. No harm in that, just not for me.

ABuckToothedGirlinLuxembourg · 04/02/2018 16:35

I’m really starting to wonder what insta does for some peoples mental health. Voted no on someone’s poll yesterday, today she’s seeming almost in tears that people did so. My account is private. Less than 300 followers. I absolutely could not put myself out there, so I have respect for those that do. But.....when it’s almost making you cry, what’s the benefit?

HolyMountain · 04/02/2018 18:08

I like #boughtwithmyownmoney.

DillyDilly · 04/02/2018 18:41

I think Instagram is detrimental to some people’s MH. I was listening to a discussion on this on some radio channel a while ago and apparently, it’s common for some social media users to feel bullied if they don’t get what they perceive to be enough number of likes and happy clappy comments.

On another note, Erica Davies had a box of goodies from Bobbi Brown on Instastories yesterday and she showed the accompanying note from B.B. which asked that if the items were to be shown on SM that in order to keep things above board, to please acknowledge that the items were sent to them. A step in the right direction by a brand. ABush showcased the same items earlier in the week but no mention of being sent or gifted, as far as I recall.

WipsGlitter · 04/02/2018 18:50

ABush pays for / declares nothing. I've said it before I cannot believe the amount of "bits" she gets sent. She doesn't even really blog anymore.

Also noticed three bloggers wearing the same M&S skirt - midi denim with a wide belt. Coincidence? Doubt it.

CountFosco · 04/02/2018 18:58

Also noticed three bloggers wearing the same M&S skirt - midi denim with a wide belt. Coincidence? Doubt it.

It was the only item they could find that wasn't hideous polyester?

botemp · 04/02/2018 19:30

Flea, I would have expected some nonsense comments along the lines of, 'Well she certainly didn't mind baring her arse when she played an escort.' It's interesting to see her so outspoken though.

I like MN because it's a decidedly old-school conversation platform that relies heavily on text, it's not ruled by pictures, or interfered by likes, upvotes and downvotes, etc. You have to read everything and engage if you want to be heard, and at the end of the day, it's still a conversation. I see value in that which I feel is severely lacking in other forms of SM which feel far more game-like, incentivised interaction rather than organic, if that makes sense.

No harm in that, just not for me.

See I do see harm in it (though I think you do too going by earlier comments), despite never having engaged with it, I see the harm everywhere. People constantly choreographing their lives around pastiche Kodak moments, suffering from anxiety, feelings of inadequacy, wanting to measure up, wanting to be anything but themselves, etc. There have been several studies on the impact of SM floating about, the most interesting comparison I've seen is that essentially, especially in the young, it's become the new form of smoking. It drives behaviour, it's addictive, and people become very twitchy at the idea of being without it.

I absolutely could not put myself out there, so I have respect for those that do.

Thing is, what intrigues me more is why we are so insistent to put people up on a pedestal that will utilise anything to hands, dogs, children, their coffee table legs if it got enough clicks, etc. to constantly be told they're loved liked. Why are we applauding that incessant need?

Yes, it takes a certain person to put themselves out there, but it's also a type of person for whom that threshold isn't that high or foreign, and to me it also explains the ease at which they'll 'sell out'. It's a bit sweeping to state Instagram is predominantly a narcissist platform but it's not far off either. I don't consider it an aspirational thing when so much of your validation has to be sourced externally, it's rather tragic really. The disproportionate reactions to criticism and screaming hurt feelings in order to exempt you from criticism isn't normal in any other workplace (though I do applaud KF for her continued engagement on here, and am encouraged to hear by others' accounts is now appearing to be a leader in transparency).

That sounds like a good practice from BB, wonder if ABush will now be penalised by receiving less/no more PR gifts from BB for not mentioning it.

FleaRiddenScruffBag · 04/02/2018 21:05

Ah ha Bo you're both wrong and right! When I say "no harm" it is because I understand that these are people trying to make a living but, yes, I absolutely agree about the dangers of SM. I am hugely shocked by the addictive/fomo nature of Insta. It seems to fill a need to be applauded/loved/admired that I find so strange and yet I acknowledge that I am older/different from the target audience. I also like the thoughtful/exchange driven nature of MN - so far removed from the adulation that drives Instagram.

Itsautumn · 04/02/2018 21:18

Bo- I agree and I also see harm. I am without a doubt addicted to my phone. I check SM platforms several times a day and it definitely has an impact on my wellbeing and mental health. Coupled with the constant bombardment of stuff on IG and it is easy to feel ‘less’ or not measuring up. In the last few weeks I have made a conscious effort to use my phone less, deleted FB, I don’t keep it in my bedroom at night etc. And as a consequence of this thread I now only follow a handful of ‘influencers’ (still hate that term!) I honestly feel better, it’s hard to explain but I’m less anxious and stressed.