Bloggers and brands

[homebythesea]

I love blogs, YouTube, Instagram etc but sometimes do wonder what's in it for the brands especially regarding blogger events.

Straight up reviews of things they get sent I totally get- they try things on/ use a face cream, wax lyrical about how great the thing is, people click through and buy said item. Straightforward advertising. No problem with that at all.

But when a blogger is invited to a dinner, or night away at a hotel, or a movie premiere by a brand I just don't get what is worth the expense? From the blogger perspective they get a night out and a goodie bag and maybe even paid to attend. But what does the brand get in return? A brief tag on an Instagram pic, some photos of beautiful place settings at dinner......but not necessarily sales?? These events must cost thousands to put on.

Hopefully someone with some knowledge about these things will enlighten us!

Its5oclocksomewhere I apologise again that you think it was a conscious decision not to mention that I had received a discount in return for a review in the first thread. It made editorial sense to mention it in the review seeing as that’s what it was relevant to, which would have been in line with ASA guidelines. As I said, with hindsight it now seems that people would have preferred me to mention it at the beginning and I have apologised for not doing so.

I'm a bit late to the party, but have been following the thread at work (in between working like a demon, obviously, if my boss is reading ). First I'd like to say hey to Kat and thank you for coming on here and talking to us directly. I must admit I had always assumed you were a MN user, but I must have just heard of you first on here and assumed you were a poster in the past as well.

I think I am going to have to agree to disagree with you on having always been transparent point. Like a PP I have followed your IG avidly in the past and, as she mentioned, I never clocked that the Wyse jumpers were gifts, that the M&S shopping trips were paid collaborations, the Chamber and Beau jewellery and the Seven Boot Lane shoes were all gifted. I'm not stupid enough that I didn't suspect that they were, but if you did tell us, it was so subtly done that it wasn't clear enough to be transparent.

IMHO I think you would have been better off saying 'I'm sorry if you didn't feel I was clear enough in the past about any promotional activity but from now on I am going to try to do this in a more transparent way'. The way you went about it made me feel patronised and also made me question everything I had read before as more and more stuff was subsequently disclosed as gifted. As a PP said, you can get away with (almost) everything by being honest.

But I do really appreciate the fact that you have obviously taken the time to read the discussion on this thread and are taking some of the comments on board. I'm sure you don't agree with all of it, and that's fine, but seeing both sides of an argument is important and you had the balls to come on here and talk directly to us, which I am sure wasn't easy to do.

I did feel a bit let down with the way things were handled (you could have easily nipped the nasty comments in the bud but you chose to let them go on, and on). As I said before, it was quite an effort to unfollow you on IG because I do like your posting style and continue to do so. I am glad you have had growing success with your blog and IG through Gleam, and I sincerely wish you continued success at what you do, because you are good at it. I just hope you don't lose sight of what has made you successful and you don't change too much that we can't relate to you any more.

Mrsdoubleskills I’m so so sorry, I don’t know what happened but I answered a question on the maxi kaftan on one of the threads, I never ever deleted one.

And when I thank someone for the invitation or for the experience, as far as I am concerned the implication is that I am guest of theirs. I said this a number of times in my stories and online but again, I can only apologise if you feel this isn’t clear.

Hi Kat, another unfollower here. I've been reading since before you were 40.

I really didn't know the Wyse jumpers were gifts or you were doing paid content with M&S monthly. Your recent stay at Le Manoir? Nope I assumed it was a special birthday or wedding anniversary that you didn't want to mention online (as you have every right to do so).

You IG followers have conducted a massive amount of name calling to people on this thread and air kissing to all the IG lovelies. The other bloggers who have now waded in on the act, have reacted really badly.

ED and a few others excepted.

I'm out and unfollowed a tonne of IG accounts and blogs this morning.

I'm not in the business of crisis PR, so take this with a pinch of salt if you will - but in my opinion, Kat, these posts here do not really serve you or your business.

How Erica handled things is the way to go. Own it, apologise, do things differently going forwards. (Is that good crisis PR? Am sure someone here can tell me).

The posts you're making here are - for me - only obfuscating the matter. Perhaps I just have a personal beef with apologies that include one or more of "I didn't mean to .. it wasn't intended .. I'm sorry you interpreted it that way". It feels insincere and feel patronised.

What a PP said was spot on: "IMHO I think you would have been better off saying 'I'm sorry if you didn't feel I was clear enough in the past about any promotional activity but from now on I am going to try to do this in a more transparent way'."

And when I thank someone for the invitation or for the experience, as far as I am concerned the implication is that I am guest of theirs

But isn't it this implication that's at the root of the issue? Everyone who stays at a hotel is by definition a "guest of theirs". Saying you're a guest and thanking them publically still doesn't give readers any indication as to whether you paid for it or not or what the terms of any arrangement were. Was it a true gifted stay with no obligation or expectation to post to social, was there an agreement to post some pics and mention / tag on social, or was it for a full review? It's just not clear.

In fact I would go so far as to say in this context, implication is assuming or hoping that readers are savvy enough to read between the lines and deduce for themselves what the arrangement is. That to me is the complete antithesis of transparency.

boxoftoads I have always said thank for the jumpers and have always stated that I have a monthly collaboration with M&S but I am hugely sorry if you haven’t seen this.

beebee99 thanks for your feedback and I’m sorry that you feel my apology was patronising. I was merely trying to explain that I didn’t feel I had done anything wrong but was mortified that people felt I was trying to deceive them. It was never my intention and if you feel my saying sorry for that was patronising, I’m not sure what else I can do.

I have also said I would and have changed the way I credit my outfits so I have taken the feedback onboard and adapted accordingly, making hopefully the provenance of my wardrobe more clear.

I'm a big believer in the power of an apology. It's not easy to do and many of us don't do it as well as we could. So thank you Kat and personally (and if people don't agree then fair enough) I'd like to move on and talk more widely about disclosure.

It's clearly very complex so can I ask you Kat about the kind of guidance bloggers get from their agencies? I realise you can't be too specific but is there advice available on how to handle it or are bloggers left to muddle through?

Its5oclocksomewhere, to me, is someone says they have been invited by x and are a guest of theirs, I would think it implicit that they’re not paying for the experience.

But I’ve taken on board your comments and will bear them in mind next time I get invited somewhere as a guest. Apologies that you felt I wasn’t clear. With regards to what the agreement is and what commitment is expected from me - absolutely nothing. It’s a PR exercise, obviously one would assume they hope I review it in a positive light but there is no commitment from my part.

Thank you Floisme. Happy to answer what I can... I did think it was very interesting some of the assumptions made on this thread earlier about management agencies.

Guidance as to what? Who to work with? It’s definitely something we work on together. They’re certainly not didactic in what you can’t or must do... they offer advice but they let me make the decisions as to who I’d like to work with. Anything else though, holler away!

Were any of my wild guesses about brands that Gleam work with accurate?

I'm newly registered, specifically for this topic actually since it's something I'm particularly interested in. I hope I haven't breached any guidelines by jumping right in and not introducing myself (I'll go and have a look around now and make sure I do things the right way).

I'm another who thinks it's great that Erica and Kat have got involved with this thread. Of course, there's a damage limitation element going on but both have been fairly open and honest so far and I feel this is a much better forum for doing so than on Instagram.

A question I have for Kat, if you don't me asking, is why did you not announce on your blog that you'd been signed by Gleam? Anyone that's read your blog for a while and understands anything about the Gleam world will be able to tell roughly when that happened. You went reasonably quickly went from "lunch with the husband followed by a trip to Oxford Street" to "in London for work". Plus the events and sponsorship really started to ramp up around that time, which of course is to be expected.

Was that a conscious decision, to not be open about it? For me, that's when things (obviously) started to change and would continue to change. You weren't just shopping locally or at Bluewater anymore, you were being "gifted product" and offered promotional opportunities.

As a reader, I think some honesty about how you were starting to monetise your blog and the time/effort you put into it would have gone a some way in preventing the issues you're starting to see now.

Ithasbeenalongtime they have relationships with lots of different brands, PR agencies but only represent the “talent” not the brands. Is that what you meant?

No, I meant have any of those brands worked with you (or Mother Pukka, if you know) because of your relationship with Gleam?

to me, is someone says they have been invited by x and are a guest of theirs, I would think it implicit that they’re not paying for the experience

So I actually do think that saying "I was invited by x and was a guest of theirs" is pretty clear and I for one would have no problem with that disclosure. However, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think this is how you handled your stay at Le Manoir. You said you were "treated to a night away" and thanked them for an incredible experience. It's stating that you were "invited by x" that's the key factor in transparency.

I appreciate that I keep banging on about posts from the past and you can't change how you handled them at the time so don't feel the need to justify or defend or apologise any more than you already have. I just find this whole discussion fascinating and it's admirable that you've come on here and opened up the debate further.

Unnecessarylandline interesting point and honestly it’s not something I’ve thought about! I suppose as i didn’t think it was really relevant as it doesn’t change the way I work on a day to day basis.

As the blog became more successful and Instagram took off, as well as the other work I undertake outside the blog, it’s impossible to manage by yourself. So a huge amount of the organisation is dealt with by them. Which I guess I didn’t think was relevant to the blog content?

The increase in the amount of work and the different opportunities started before I signed with Gleam. The House Of Fraser billboards for example, the article in the Times - the way the media, brands and PR companies looked at the more mature blogger - all came at around the same time.

To that extent, I am fully aware of the power that we have and how we do need to be careful of how not to abuse it. The lines are not clearly set and as a result, we do welcome feeback and do need to readjust our practices, if appropriate. It’s a learning curve for everyone.

I have become very aware that lots of original blog readers don’t like the way blogs have expanded and yes, become more commercial. But they have become our full time jobs - hell, i’m more surprised than anyone, and as a result we do need to try and negotiate that tricky line between what we were for our original readers and what we need to be for the market. And we won’t always get it right.

But I’m happy to apologise and try and learn from my mistakes, which weren’t intentional, whilst retaining the content and ethos of the blog.

Thanks Kat for coming on here and apologising and taking the time to answer questions today. I hope you realise that you were mentioned initially because you are so popular among MNers. I know bloggers dread getting talked about here but there's a lot of appreciation for your work in S&B.

One question I have is that some bloggers have been quite open about collaborations for a while with statements at the top or bottom of the post saying it was sponsored or they received the items for free. Do Gleam put any pressure on you to deliberately obfuscate on the blog because it benefits the brands if your followers don't realise something is a gift or collaboration or an ad? Maybe you can't truthfully answer that of course!

CountFosco thanks for that and no I wasn’t aware but it’s lovely to hear!

With regards to blog content, Gleam have absolutely no editorial control At All. I always write in the body of the blog, in the first parageaph or two. that this has been written in collaborationwith/as part of a collaborative series as I find that more natural and in keeping with my usual blog content.

But I’m happy to put it at the bottom of the blog as well from now on, to make extra sure people are aware. I will say that I only work with brands that I would actually wear and do actually advocate. There are many brands who I have turned down lucrative assignments with as I wouldn’t use or wear the products.

Kat one of the reasons I gave up following fashion blogs was that they stopped giving negative reviews. Yes, you may only work with brands you like but sometimes it's useful - and interesting - to hear what you don't like.

When I say 'you', I'm not talking about you personally. In this post I'm talking about blogs generally.

Let's take Hush as an example: I think some of their stuff looks really nice but, in my experience, the quality is shit. That's the kind of thing I'd like to find out from a blog. When I began to see only positive reviews, not only did it make me question a blogger's independence, it also made those blogs a much duller, very monotone read. So I stopped following.

Once again I'm not talking specifically about your blog, I think it applies to pretty much all the ones that accept sponsorship. And yes, it's equally true of magazines. Do you ever see this changing?

@katfarmer can I suggest you look at how Midlifechic and ALifeToStyle credit gifts/collaborations etc on their blogs? No "implications" required when you use the right wording!

This is true Flo. I got one of those initial bags from a small brand that is all over IG after seeing it on various fashion blogger IG posts. Nice little unknown brand (like to support small businesses) and a unique and cool bag, I thought. When the bag arrived I felt a bit sick because it had cost me nearly £70 and I had to sniff the handles to see if they really were leather because they looked so cheap and flimsy. Inevitably the handles started snapping almost immediately and eventually they all went until the bag was unusable. If a blogger had said "great bag, looks fantastic but the handles are a bit flimsy" and actually done a proper review, then I could have made a decision about whether it was suitable to lug all my stuff around or not (I rarely travel lightly). And before anyone says I should have said something directly to the maker, yes I did discreetly message the brand on IG and say how I loved the bags but the quality let them down, but got no reply .

Ithasbeen, oh no! I have been well and truly “influenced” and have put one of their bags on my Christmas list. I fancy khaki with red letters. Thanks for your clear and honest review. I will quickly take it off my list and look elsewhere.

I have one of the bags in leopard print with red letters - I use it every day as my over-flow work bag and it has been absolutely fine. Most days I carry about a load of marking, my lunch, and a bottle of water, but it has often had a spare pair of shoes, and groceries (including a bottle of wine) picked up on my way home to no ill-effects. I love it, and have had people stop me in the street to ask where it’s from.

(I got it in February, btw.)

Thanks Judy. Now I’m torn. Will have a think on it.