Bloggers and brands

[homebythesea]

I love blogs, YouTube, Instagram etc but sometimes do wonder what's in it for the brands especially regarding blogger events.

Straight up reviews of things they get sent I totally get- they try things on/ use a face cream, wax lyrical about how great the thing is, people click through and buy said item. Straightforward advertising. No problem with that at all.

But when a blogger is invited to a dinner, or night away at a hotel, or a movie premiere by a brand I just don't get what is worth the expense? From the blogger perspective they get a night out and a goodie bag and maybe even paid to attend. But what does the brand get in return? A brief tag on an Instagram pic, some photos of beautiful place settings at dinner......but not necessarily sales?? These events must cost thousands to put on.

Hopefully someone with some knowledge about these things will enlighten us!

Erica, thank you for joining the thread. It's much appreciated and thanks for your thoughts.

Previous posters have written much better responses than I can. Clarity is all we need in what's your own thoughts, what's been gifted, what's gifted with conditions, what's from future/previous partners.

What's paid and what's not I guess.

I've noticed a name change too, no longer bloggers, IGrammers, You Tubers but now 'Influencers'. Every day something new

Changes I think are happening to quick for regulators to keep up.

Thank you very much! I think it’s fair that there are lots of questions. Loads of points raised here on this thread are really interesting and valid. And as I mentioned in my Insta post, it’s such a new industry there’s bound to be confusion. But talking about it is always good!

Bravo for coming on here to reply Erica!
How do you respond irl if someone approaches you and says they're a fan of your blog/IG?

@ihavepatrick ha ha! Well it’s very surreal to be honest, but lovely. Usually accompanied by an arm squeeze - and an arm squeeze is always welcome!

Erica - you are a class act.

I have used mn for a loooong time - and yes some of it can be robust but there are a lot of wonderful women on here so it is just so sad when we are dismissed as jealous haters.

But the bloggers who listen to their audience and respond - well they are the ones who I suspect will have longevity.

Erica, just want to reiterate what others have said, much respect for you coming here and talking directly to us in this forum and for the way you have handled this on IG. I agree with mrscampbellblack, I also haven't posted on MN for years as like many other users I drifted onto twitter and then onto IG, but so many of the issues on this debate resonated with how I was feeling about IG. The bloggers and 'grammers that listen and adapt to feedback are the ones that will survive and go on to build and maintain successful businesses.

Thanks for joining in Erica - it's great to get your input. I remember Jane coming onto a previous thread and it helped me understand that bloggers themselves are put under pressure - although some deal with it a lot better than others!

Thank you June .

Wow, Erica thanks for joining in. You have a beautiful kitchen btw

Thank you for joining the thread Erica and for being genuinely open to having a discussion about these issues. It seems to me that this is new territory both for us as consumers and for bloggers and finding a way forward is only going to happen through open conversations and greater transparency. Like others on this thread, I haven't posted on MN for ages but this thread is so interesting. Part of the reason I feel I need greater understanding and transparency is that over the coming years I'm going to be parenting my children thru being teenagers in a very different world to when I was a teenager in the late 80s/early 90s and Just 17 was the main source of fashion and make up tips!

@EDited76 Erica I’d just like to echo the voices of those before me and say that you’re absolutely welcome here. You’ve handled the transparency debate so well.

Since we're somewhat speculating on where this blogging industry will lead, I would be curious to know your thoughts are, Erica, on where you see it going. Not specifically to your blog individually but the industry as a whole.

If we look at the big names in fashion like Leandra Medine and Garance Dore they clearly made a switch from personal blog to a wider digital platform, separating their more personal style and thoughts to Instagram or similar. Others diversify into brands like Chiara Ferragni or other more financially sustainable projects, at least by conventional measures. There seems to be a natural saturation point where the blog as it is can no longer sustain growth but I've also seen comments by LM and GD that the constant sharing of their private life was a high toll they could tolerate for so long. With the mum bloggers you see a lot of satellite blogs popping up (either a specific interest or the DH, DM, or other family member capitalises on the established following to diversify the appeal of the core blog further and the cynic in me will point out the diversification of products that can then be flogged increase).

The subject of families within the brand sort of brings us back to the children, do you see the need for regulation? I can see the Truman show scenarios happen without it, more specifically in those video families. I can easily see those children establishing their own influence platforms once they're of a certain age with a following ready and waiting but it does leave to wonder how healthy it is to be growing up with that level of constant observation. Do you see the need for regulation imposed by specific bodies (sorry, the ASA doesn't really count) as other forms of media are subject to, or should the regulations be self-established within the blogging community first? Is that even feasible?

Apologies if you've already addressed this in your instastory, I can't seem to figure out how to see it without signing up.

Thank you all very much for your kind words and for making me so welcome I just feel there’s such a crossover of readers on both Insta and MN and it seems such a shame that a ‘them’ and ‘us’ culture has arisen. Small changes, but at least there’s a conversation happening!

@botemp Sorry I wrote the message above while you posted this one!

Wow. Questions. The blog conversation is really interesting. It's one I am constantly having with blogger friends at the moment, who feel they have fallen out of love with having a 'blog' per se. Instagram has effectively become a micro-blog, certainly in my experience. I love the short, snappy soundbites, conversations and stories you can convey which makes it easy for people to dip in and out. You might not get the lengthy content found in a blog, but I wonder whether that's still important? Do you think it is?

Creating good content /captions for Instagram takes time and it doesn't leave much brain space for additional blog posts! This is obviously only my opinion, because lots of people do multiple platforms brilliantly. I just have two children I quite like seeing occasionally!

BUT, Instagram isn't 'our' platform, we don't own our accounts in the same way as owning our blogs and who knows what could happen. You spend time building up a following and who knows where it will go! Chiara, Garance and Leandra have all become lifestyle 'brands' and have naturally started business offshoots and designer collaborations. I do often wonder where it'll all go.

Re the children issue, yes it does worry me, which is why I don't feature mine. My daughter, who is five, would happily be photographed morning, noon and night, but my son, who is seven, doesn't like the idea of it at all. And honestly, it's all about me! Ha! I was a fashion editor and so it seems strange that I should include them when my blog /IG is based on my 20-year career, not my role as a mum. I am unsure about whether the regulation element would be feasible. I think you just have to approach it with a strong sense check and consider the future.

We have had a lot of debate about whether IG exploits the readers because of the way things are presented (or not). I was thinking last night that I also think there is an element of exploitation by the brands of the IG influencers.

Would an established brand really pay a fashion magazine in clothes (the cost price of which would be a fraction of the price in the shops) if they were writing editorial or placing an ad in a magazine? I'm sure they wouldn't, they would pay the magazine in hard cash. Influencers must be far far cheaper for the brands to place ads in than buying a page in a magazine, and the audience is captive so it is likely to be considerably better value. (admittedly I don't know how many IG posts you get for one pair of trainers - I'm sure this currency is a dark art anyhow)

I can see for a new brand its a good way to get your name out there and grow awareness if you are trying to grow your business on a shoestring, but for larger brands I do think there is an element of exploitation of the blogger because what they are giving back in terms of promotional value is probably worth so much more than a pair of shoes or a bag.

Additionally, the issue of attaching a brand to the lifestyle in the blog is also quite exploitative IMO. The brands take advantage of the fact that you are prepared to show the clothes off in your home or model them with your cute kids in the background and it all helps meet the lifestyle image they are looking for - they don't have to pay to stage your home or hire child models either. Some IG posters and bloggers willingly share so much of their life, home and family members and I can't help feeling the brands are taking advantage of that.

I'm probably not the best to ask, I'm not representative of a target reader as I tend to avoid blogs in the main. I got off Instagram when Facebook took it over because I didn't like where it was headed. It used to be a much more creative experimental place (it was essentially a filter app that's how I got to know it, and it was less about selfies, facetune, etc. and more about moods, tendencies, looking at the world through another's eyes, etc. but without the intimidation factor that a place like flickr had IME). So it's just my outsider's perspective as a current non-user but to me it very much feels like a place of vanity where images compete with a certain curation that is becoming more and more removed from reality, not the spontaneity or accidental that's so inherent with photography as a medium. It's still there in pockets but it's not what drives the main feeds, it was a photography app that allowed for sharing and it's most definitely an image-based social network now. I think that facilitates a lot of people on a very basic level, a picture and the necessary information on where to get it, it's quick, it nourishes for the moment, it's mostly digestible, it requires very little of one's attention span, but it's a bit like fast food.

I'm probably in a minority but I do feel there's a need for good editorial content that's not solely image based (but I draw inspiration from everywhere and anything, it's not usually a direct one to one with clothes. I'm more likely to pick some inspiration up from a negative space in a painting rather than want to replicate outfits as seen on other people one to one, but that is the majority appeal to blogs and those don't appeal much to me either). I accept I'll more likely find that consistently in magazines that are managing to adapt to the times but certain key voices will still remain unheard, the internet offers a place for that but if image is king they lose.

As linked above the Fashion Law shows it can be done, but that's a very specific interest blog and I have no idea whether that is a financially viable one. They've been doing a lot of reporting on image rights, which is interesting, as you say, the accounts are there for you to use but not to own. The platform owns it all in exchange for the access. There's an accepted balance that's off-kilter in a sense and I wonder how long it can remain as such. It's a developing aspect of the blogging world that intrigues me, everything has been 'free' for so long but the disparities in financial gains (the street photographer vs. the photographed for example, yet both were elemental to the rise) is fielding a new sort of tension, I consider this thread an offshoot of that. Similarly, brands are eager to let bloggers create their content by trawling their feeds, using it in exchange for a credit and no payment as would be industry standard if one isn't alert or business savvy about it. Considering there are so many aspiring bloggers the possibilities for exploitation seem ripe.

Apols, above was in reply to @EDited76.

Hadn't seen Ithas' response yet when posting but it seems we're thinking similar things about exploitation that goes beyond 'influencer' and following.

Great post, botemp.

The lack of transparency works in favour of the brands and the influencer agencies at the moment. It keeps the readers in blissful ignorance and therefore unaware they are being influenced to buy stuff, and it keeps the bloggers happy, because there are no visible pay scales to compare your worth v another blogger to.

I don't think its any coincidence that one of the bloggers that appears to be most successful at getting paid or sponsored by big brands is dresslikeamum, who has worked extensively with brands in her previous career before becoming a professional blogger.

I don't know if bloggers are happy about the situation. They are constantly being measured against each other. Stats and metrics are legible for everyone and that determines rates to a certain extent, it's one of the few aspects that is somewhat transparent but it must be disheartening to see great opportunities go to those who perhaps play the game more shrewdly over the backs of their followers, or exploit the images of their children when you feel that's overstepping a line. Add to that the future is very uncertain as there is no clear endgame when you're one of many and not the top dog. Someone else mentioned above that there must be a lot of turmoil hiding between the veil of sisterhood, open criticism, as made abundantly clear with this thread, isn't appreciated and likely there's a lot of backroom chat that is anything but flattering. I suspect that assessment is probably not far from the reality.

*beneath not between, sleep obviously needed.

Interesting posts! The current lack of transparency definitely works in favour of the brands and agencies. Personally I don't like Instagram and after the last few days have deleted the app from my phone. I've always been a reader and therefore prefer blogs to an endless stream of posed images which feel quite fake.
Erica-I originally came across your blog after following your house boards on Pinterest and really like your blogs about the process of renovating your house, use of colour, plants, sources of buying art and your fabulous kitchen. Those feel creative and inspirational but in an achievable way.
Over the last year there's been a backlash against food bloggers, the non-evidence based health claims they make and, in many cases, their total lack of any experience and expertise. It feels as if people are starting to question what they are being 'sold' and what underpins the glossy images.

Lots of interesting debate. I think that when we read, say, a magazine article, we know that the fashion journalist will be using clothes that have featured in fashion shows, been sent to the publication etc. they are reviewing the current or next season's clothes for a photo shoot or written article. When we read a fashion blog, unless it is made clear, it can appear that we are looking at a real life, stylish person and what they choose to buy, wear and what works for them. If the lines are beginning to blur, from this is my life into actually this is me advertising but pretending it's my life, I think readers/followers just want to be clear that they are not being misled. If x blogger is invited by a brand to look at their clothes and choose a selection, fine, but we would like it to be acknowledged. I accept that "real life" fashion blogs change with time, but I think a lot of us would like them to be up front about those changes.

Thank you, Erica for joining in, it's useful to see your perspective. The issues on using children are very pertinent too, I find that a bit frightening about the used as part of a "brand" tbh.

With the magazine I always assume the sample have been given to the magazine, not for personal use.

Although I would welcome it if they auctioned them and gave the money to charity.

Depending on the product (travel, restaurants, beauty products, etc. I assume are always given) I also assume it is given or borrowed by a magazine and they can only work within that system that heavily relies on brands as such because they're not an instant business, they work months in ahead of production. There may be a bit of a Christmas bonus style division among the staff after the editors have taken their pick at the end of the season but it's chiefly there for the magazine's use. The freebies also end as soon as the job does. The point being, however, is that the magazine as an entity never presents it like they bought it or accidentally stumbled upon it, the relationship between businesses is pretty clear, just how much influence the advertisers have in the editorial is less transparent, and it's probably far more intrusive than we think as seen in the Lucinda Chambers interview.

Since we were discussing how happy bloggers are, this article is less about fashion blogs and more about the Instagram medium and Instafit movement but I found it an interesting insight to share here nonetheless, especially on how it impacts the self as a result of living this online life:

I’m Instagram famous, and I have crippling body image issues

It's somewhat harrowing to read how acutely aware he is of how unhealthy it all is, but at the same time feels like a train he got on and can no longer get off.

I'm another poster who doesn't read blogs any more, although I used to. Instagram leaves me cold. Content and good writing is very important to me. It's why I'm drifting back to magasines, although the issues that made me give up on them haven't gone away and they're just as much in hock to their advertisers as any blogger. They even seem afraid to discuss the merits or otherwise of a generic style these days. I remember when uber low waisted jeans were a thing, you could still find fashion writers querying whether they were wearable; and when skinnies first returned I recall a number of 'Ouff, not for me' articles. I can't imagine ever seeing anything like that in a fashion magazine now. It's why bloggers were such a breath of fresh air to begin with, until they went the same way.

And I agree the brands and the designers must love bloggers. They surely cost them a fraction of traditional advertising fees and because they work alone, they're easy to pick off, one by one.