Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!

[botemp]

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether thread 1,2, 3, and 4 are worth reading, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault.

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then . Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

Make sure you've read the earlier threads (or at the very least the first one) so we're not being asked to answer to previously raised questions. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions relating specifically to you, use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer one or to two people a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:

---

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly either.

I didn't actually read skinful's post as wanting to 'shag' him.

botemp thank you so much for your reply, it all makes perfect sense, can’t wait to get started and report back.
To you and everybody else who has posted I have to say thank you as I’ve really enjoyed reading through the threads – there is such a wealth of information to be gained from each. Keep up the good work

TK maxx haul
By nature shampoo and conditioner - I stock up when I see it! Got the Manuka honey one which says for stressed and dull hair, £6 for 500ml
Natural sense bath soak which is salts with rose and peppermint, reduced to £4 for 950g
Maybelline the falsies mascara in a twin pack for £6
Bee Good 2 in 1 cleanser, it's like a creamy balm and I liked the sample I tried. £3.99 for 100ml and it's online for £12 usually
Bee good vanilla and honey lip balm, has a slanted top which I like and £1.99
Dr Bronner in peppermint - I like this for my (current!) strip washes and makeup brush cleaning plus a bit for scrubbing the bath/shower/sink out

Skin type: Combination

Approx age (range): 41

Primary skin concern: face and neck gets red very easily during course of day especially in a warm office.

Routine : cleanser applied with cotton wool couple of times a week
Moisturiser applied when I remember
AM : when I remember cleanse and moisturise

PM : More likely to remember in the evening but again maybe one twice a week

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage
None
Occasional treatments: None but would like to start

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results: Spending money on products and then not using then more than a few times

Things that are really working well for me now: Nothing

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant: Coeliac disease

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]: An easy routine to combat redness, dark circles and heavy eyelids. I am now in my 40s and really need to get myself sorted. Not to many products day to day but could incorporate an evening for longer treatments

---Thanks guys, I really don't know where to start. Some products make my cheeks irritated after about 10 mins of applying.

I actually finished my first TO Vit C this morning. I really like it as a product now. Didn't expect that to happen!

How is your wound hollin?

I'm with you Pupsie. Funny how opinions of that product have changed.

Update on the gosh growth serum: last night I noticed my lashes are definitely thicker and longer. Actually thought that I hadn't removed my mascara properly! It's been about a month I think.

Have you been applying it daily dulci? I get lazy with things like that. I have some castor oil for my eyebrows but I bought a big bottle and then decanted some into a small bottle but no brush and it's very sticky. I just need to to be easy to put on.

I see Caroline Hirons has written about the new P50 btw.

Yes - mostly, I reckon it works out that I might forget once a week. It has an integral brush, like a liquid eyeliner, which makes it easier. The thing is making it a habitual part of the evening routine; I'm obviously not quite there yet, but now seeing results will I hope prompt me to remember more often.

Is the castor oil working for your brows?

I think it does, yes, when I remember! I need a pot with an integral brush. I've switched to putting it on in the mornings, as it sort of helps tame/smooth the eyebrows too.

cabininthewoods2016, it's really hard to respond as there's nothing I can physically do to suddenly make it so that you'll follow a routine. A change of products isn't going to inspire a habit you don't currently have. I could potentially rec some products that are time saving but these always come at an increased cost so my suggestion would be the following, mark a period of time, minimum 2 weeks preferable 4-6 where you commit to doing a routine of cleansing and moisturising in the AM and PM and carve out that time for it, for you. Once you find that it's become a habit you maintain automatically then we can talk additional/alternative products to set you up properly.

Below is a repeat of often given advice on how to get started:

Where to start

The basics: Keep your face away from the shower water, it's too hot. Embrace the sink as your face’s new best friend.. Tepid water, clean flannel every day. Wash hands before starting routine. Acids need to be introduced slowly, some purging may occur but should not continue, nor should continued irritation with any product. Generally introduce products slowly (cleansers are exempt from this), 2 weeks apart.

• In terms of informing yourself, you’re probably well on your way. The most important thing is to start mapping out the time you’ll take for yourself on the daily. The routine which will allow you to see more of a difference is in the PM and this is often at the risk of being hurried or forgotten. It really is a point of it becoming a habit which it’ll become soon enough with continued use but some tricks to actually make it happen are the following:

-Tying it to dental care: cleanse first, then brush teeth etc. (assuming you’re at least dedicated to this 2x a day), then finish up routine.

-Doing your routine as soon as you get home from work/after dinner/with DC around bedtime or equivalent to have it done early in the evening around a set moment and not needing to worry about it or feel too tired for right before bed.

-Moving everything but your cleansing routine out of the bathroom so you can’t be harassed out of there during the morning rush, take time in a more peaceful setting or whilst doing other things, etc.

• In terms of tools it’s probably worth getting a set of dedicated flannels to be used once a day (I prefer the plusher top of the line ones from Primark, the ones from Ikea 10 for a pound or thereabouts are a bit rougher and not suitable for sensitive skin but may be fine for others, some may prefer muslin, etc.)

• Product wise you’ll want to find an SPF you’ll enjoy wearing on a daily basis first and not an SPF in another product such as moisturiser or makeup. These are rarely broad spectrum and often don’t provide the promised coverage. You’ll want an SPF30+ in winter and SPF50 come summer time. If you can find one you like that is sweatproof great, otherwise, you’ll most likely need a separate one when spending long periods of time outdoors and/or doing exercise.

• If you can only manage the bare minimum on the daily then it should be cleansing + SPF in the AM and cleansing + moisturiser or facial oil in the PM. In saying that it’s also a good strategy to keep your routine small to start to keep it both manageable and achievable but also to avoid the inability to track possible incompatible products.

• Relegate products that aren’t working for you now to body care.

Order of things to buy and try

Phase 1: SPF + Oil Cleanser (for PM) + Cream or other gentle cleanser (for AM and possibly double cleanse if necessary/wear makeup)

Phase 2: Moisturiser and possibly a Hyaluronic Acid based serum for hydration

Phase 2.1: If at this point you still feel like you could use a bit of extra moisturiser a facial oil at night will help out.

Phase 3: Start researching Active Ingredients that will address your specific needs/help address your skincare goals eg. Exfoliating Acids, Vitamin C, Retinol, Niacinamide, etc.

I think science doesn't support the Castor oil hair growth claims, it's a combination of conditioning and how the hairs appear with an oil coating on iirc. Whenever I've looked into it I've always erred on the eye of safety as the science is unsubstantiated but the reality that it causes some to lose their hair or actually inhibit hair growth instead and that is very much well recorded.

Well it was about time she discovered the P50 PIGM, it's been out since October or so. I was already late to the party in November, have been using it ever since and I am very happy with it. It is very much delivering on the brightness part and the usual P50 performance.

The comments underneath that post are interesting, the Liberty counter seems terribly staffed. Though I have to disagree with CH somewhat on BR keeping the P50 difficult to buy, after reading the countless horror stories on here about Liquid Gold, N+F pads, etc. I think it really does require thorough explanation and disclaiming before people just start using this (along with mandatory SPF). I was initially very much against the EU's current talks of limiting Glycolic and OTC Retinol (only talks so far but Canada has already pushed this through on AHAs and the EU tends to follow quickly with these things) because I thought it was a bit too heavy-handed, never experiencing issue myself because I've always been cautious. There does, however, seem to be a bit of a trend of people messing up their skin with product (TO is another offender) and while the blame should be somewhat with the mindless applicators of it mistaking it for any old cosmetic product and the manufacturer's lack of highlighting the dangers enough, I do think it's worth taking a closer look at in terms of regulations on what's allowed currently without any form supervision or advice. BR and their intermediary threshold is in that sense useful. It is, however, reprehensible that they're exploiting it for add-on sales (something I've never experienced from BR directly but then the Amsterdam shop I go to just sells the line, it's not a BR counter and they do plenty to convince you of lots of other things you don't need).

Good to know the Gosh serum really is working for you Dulci, it was already on my to buy list for when I'm next in Copenhagen but I might just stock up now, iirc that one could be used on eyebrows too, right?

Pupsie - sore but stitches out tomorrow and I can have a bath!!

Oh my goodness, just read the comments about buying P50 at Liberty! Well I got the sales pitch but I am surprised at some of the experiences described. Admittedly I only wanted the W version due to the ingredients, and I was with a friend so probably wasn't paying full attention to the spiel anyway, but I do wonder if some of the posters just needed a bit of backbone?!

Pretty sure the gosh serum is good for eyebrows too, can't see why not. It won't sting brows either - if you use too much and/or it gets onto the waterline there can be a bit of a tingle - not for long and not severe, but just to let you know!

Thank you Botemp

I will address the habit factor first and move on from there.

Great advice on here so going to read the first 3 threads as well

botemp thank you for your reply. Sub-himalayan is correct, Pakistani to be precise. I am going to watch your recommended video and search for some others as a starting point.

I have always had pigmentation issues but right now 8 months after having my 2nd baby they are quite bad. I have awful pores and get loads of congestion which then leads to my trying to do some extraction . Which then ends up with me damaging my skin.

In some ways my skin is so resiliant, at nearly 40 with foundation on, I've not got wrinkles (well apart from the one ive caused by lifting my eyebrows too much!) and am told I pass for much younger. But on the other hand the slightest touch ends up with scarring, even something like a cold sore which i dont touch leaves a horrid mark that takes months to go.

Skin is definitely looking brighter with TO regime but i want something to target the dark spots which is what i was looking for advice on.

Ive just made another TO order and I've got the Vit C and HA suspension this time so I wonder whether i could just apply that on dark patches after all my other stuff in the evening?

Also looking for an opinion on whether I need to change my cleanser, could I do better than the Nip +Fab - I've got the Face Shop Rice Oil foaming wash and light oil in my Amazon basket.

Also got Skin Prep Enzyme and Acid Peel and Bebarefaced Brightning Mask waiting there if anyone has any views on these?

superstarry I have very similar sounding skin/ issues to yours (mixed South Indian/Irish) and the best thing I've found for the kind of scarring you describe is TO Vit C, so hopefully you should soon see some improvements there. My older marks have plateaued in their fading now, but are so much easier to cover (grey rather than purple) and I use it to keep on top of anything new that will cause marks (also suncpscreen helps here) and am finding the hyper pigmentation is just not getting a chance to even get going.
I do use it directly onto my marks, as you are wondering about.

superstaary, I've been doing a broad search but not coming up with much specifically yet. I'm rather unsure at the moment whether medium-dark Asian skin is the same as Afro-Carribean skin or not. It does sound like similar issues, the skin does indeed tend to be a bit thicker and with it oil glands are larger ie. pores are more visible and the skin is more prone to breakouts and takes longer to heal after. I'm also trying to source how the skin is impacted by living in these climate conditions vs. genetic country of origin (also wondering how that would affect Vit D intake as a lack of this will also impact skin).

I'm also trying to determine whether Alpha Arbutin is a good one for you (as it's a derivative of hydroquinone which generally isn't used in darker skins as it can, in a low rate of incidents, cause darkening of the skin instead).

Also checking for you whether mandelic acid would be a good route to go down as that's one often used by Afro-Carribean as they seem to respond to that better, SEA like it because it's gentle. It's where I'd be looking for a peel, I'll have to check if the ones that are always recommended are available here. The Dr. Wu serum at 20% is a popular mandelic product too.

Wrt cleanser I do think something else would be a better choice (not a fan of N+F in general but I wouldn't be much of a fan of the INCI regardless of the brand). To tackle the pores somewhat you could look into using the CosRx Low Ph Morning Cleanser as an AM cleanser and second cleanse in the PM or the LRP Toleriane Dermo will also suit generally. I'd recommend a non-fragranced oil cleanser instead of the face shop one so something like Clinique TTDO, The Heimish Balm, DHC Cleansing Oil, etc.

Wrt your routine, I was a bit confused and left wondering if you've currently taken out all your occlusives and layering on a lot of serums only? Seems a bit counterproductive, I'd definitely bring back in the occlusives (moisturiser and oils).

And as yongnian pointed out SPF is still essential and will help with the pigmentation too. Vit C 23% will probably be more effective than the MAP, however, if using in the AM remember not to combine the 23% one with the Nia. Also, although tackling them is often the same or similar products, I've never asked what the source of your hyperpigmentation is, the result left behind from blemishes, sun damage, general ageing, or a combination thereof.

Other pigmentation/brightening ingredients to look out for are liquorice root extract and kojic acid. As mentioned above I'm currently using the Biologique Recherche P50 PIGM 400 which I think would also be interesting for you to look at (though officially you'd have to start with P50W first but depending on how resilient the skin is and if you've previously build up acid use you might get on with the PIGM 400 straight away, I can give you a decant to try if that's the case but you need to have a good SPF system in place). Considering that the skin is also thicker you would be one to benefit from using an AHA acid toner (of a slightly gentler nature) on a more regular basis to help products penetrate better.

Just started using TO R2% to see if ditching the SC one will solve my skin peeling problems (I reality I'm talking about a very minor irritation which you can only see from about 20cm distance ). I'm still off the Vit C too.
Can't remember who wrote they combined the TO R with the SC one. It very clearly says the the bottle not to do that so please be careful!
Still off the Vit C to try and asses what is causing the problem cause I really hope it's not the concealer
Grrr, January is a tough skin month! Though besides this minor thing my skin is still looking very very good and "bright".

Pupsie I use an old mascara wand (which I've obvs cleaned) for castor oil. Can't say I've seen any new brow hairs (started doing it cause skin under brows was very flakey) but I do see significant improvement in the length my lashes, though I only use it a few times a month now.

Great new video on LE's YT with Mary Greenwell.

I've altered my routine slightly
Dulci sent me a HA and niaci serum that my skin seems to really love so I'm using that PM, alternating with retinol (and moisturiser of course!)
AM is the azelaic acid from TO followed by moisturiser
Skin seems vaguely happy! Have added zinc back as a supplement plus omega 3, a multi vit and vit C

skinful I just wanted to say I didn't find your post offensive. Hope you are ok.

pupsie I have also grown to like TO Vit C. Although I am still unsure if I am using it correctly. Do you use it before or after HA serum (if you are using one?)

Hollin I like zinc as a supplement, made a difference for me acne wise.

Just trying to decide whether to dye my hair out of a box or not. Usually get it done at the salon but my usual person has left and the woman who replaced him didn't do a great job last time. I have two, 1 semi, 1 permanent. Trying to get a cool mid brown with no brass. More confident about the permanent shade but if it goes wrong...

Maybe I should just dye it red. Tempting.

And I'm fancying the TO vit C too. Word of warning for any acne prone lurkers using the LRP for pigmentation marks, less is definitely more. I got over confident and rubbed it in a patch last week and it caused a small breakout. (Shea butter). Gone back to carefully dabbing a smal bit directly on to each individual mark with any rubbing in and just letting it sink in. Also apply well before going to sleep so the pillow doesn't smear it or press it in. Presumably if a person isn't acne prone then there's no need to be so careful but anyone who doesn't get on with Shea butter, don't get too slap happy with it.

*without any rubbing in