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Real fur

60 replies

Twogoats · 25/10/2016 18:08

Out of interest, does anyone here wear it?

I don't. I'm veggie and wouldn't wear leather either.

Saying that, it seems to be getting a surge of popularity at the minute!

Not looking for a fight, just curious about people's opinions!

OP posts:
Judydreamsofhorses · 25/10/2016 21:07

I wear leather, and have quite a collection of fake fur coats. I wouldn't ever wear real fur, but I have actually had quite a bit of stick for wearing faux fur from random people in the street.

SuburbanRhonda · 25/10/2016 21:10

I think wearing fur is tacky tbh, vintage or not.

MirabelleTree · 25/10/2016 21:13

I won't wear it but have two jackets in the garage that my Mum had that I don't really know how to get rid of. I try to forget they are there.

BedknobsandBullhooks · 25/10/2016 21:18

Leather is absolutely not a by-product.

I wouldn't ever wear fur no matter what. We don't need to kill animals in horrific ways for vanity. I wouldn't wear an antique or hand-me-down either because that would be me stating 'It's okay to wear fur' and it isn't.

sparechange · 25/10/2016 21:18

Can we just clear up that the vast, vast majority of leather is a by-product of the meat industry.

Unless you are buying something very niche like crocodile or alligator, in which case the meat is a by-product of the leather production.

I'm sure PETA can find you a video of cows being declared unfit for consumption but still used for leather but there is no large scale farming of animals just for leather production...

sparechange · 25/10/2016 21:26

Bedknobs
What do you mean by leather not being a by-product? Does that you mean you think animals are killed primarily to make leather?

I'd be interested to know what you think makes this correct.
The current price for a lamb skin is around £3, and a cowhide is £60
You honestly think that people rear animals for the £3 they get for the skin and not the hundreds (and thousands for cows) that they get for their meat?

NotAMammy · 25/10/2016 21:30

Thanks sparechange, I assumed it was, but I don't know why I had a vague hmm about it.

SlinkyVagabond · 25/10/2016 21:38

Well there was a lot of it about in the windows of the very high end designer stores I was gawping in on the weekend. I think it's Armani that especially don't care.(but may be wrong)

Spam88 · 25/10/2016 21:54

I wouldn't wear fur. And I don't get the idea that it's okay to wear vintage fur but not new fur. That just seems to me the same as people who think ivory is okay as long as it's from back when it was legal.

Whatthefoxgoingon · 25/10/2016 22:03

I have fur family heirlooms but I don't like or wear them. I'm not sure why I'm still holding onto them tbh Hmm

Fluffsnuts · 25/10/2016 22:08

Those saying leather is a by-product of the meat industry, it isn't. Meat cattle and leather cattle are different breeds I guess leather carcasses go in to dog food sometimes.

And those saying meateaters don't have a no fur argument, I feel that stunning and slitting the throat of an animal before chopping it up is slightly different to the live (and often un-stunned)skinning of an animal then left to die of shock.

MrsMcMoo · 25/10/2016 22:14

Ugh, it's disgusting. Also, don't assume your meat, dairy and leather are somehow 'humane'. They're all vile industries causing terrible suffering. The idea of treating living beings like this is really upsetting. I'm amazed people are still blind to it.

Floisme · 25/10/2016 22:14

I understood the issue with leather was that a lot of it isn't locally produced but comes from India and China where there's little or nothing in the way of animal welfare. Plus when you buy a leather product, there's normally no way of telling where it's from. I don't pretend to know a lot about it and, as a leather wearer, I'd be more than happy to be corrected. But if you google, some of the info looks grim.

sparechange · 25/10/2016 22:23

Fluffnuts

That is just not true!
There are different breeds of cows used for meat production and milk production, but there aren't cows bred only for their leather.

Even PETA acknowledges on their website that most leather is a by-product of the meat and dairy industry.
www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-clothing/leather-industry/leather-factory-farming/
As you will see from the US-centric website, their objection to leather is the furthering of intensive farming methods.

It is total bollocks to suggest there are leather farms or special leather-only breeds of cows.

The value of a hide is very low - under £100 for top quality hides and under £50 for low quality ones. It wouldn't be remotely viable to farm cows just for the hides.

Sheep and pigs are also used for leather btw. More for accessories than clothing though.

Veterinari · 25/10/2016 22:30

Don't the things you read about the leather industry put you off too Palomb ? Not a criticism just a genuine question - how can you love one but feel unconfirrabke about fur?

RebelandaStunner · 25/10/2016 23:01

I wouldn't ever wear it. It's still a dead animal whether vintage or new.
Definitely not my style. I prefer my animals snuggled up with me on the sofa and very much alive.
Luckily all my recent ancestors were animal lovers and left us money in their wills instead.

aniceearlynight · 25/10/2016 23:02

I wouldn't buy fur but have 4 fur coats and other bits and bobs from grannies & mum including one beautiful black mink swing jacket from the 1960s with my granny's initials beautifully stitched into the silk brocade lining. It still smells a bit of her perfume, or so I like to think. They are all stored in an ice-cold spare room at my parents' house. I'd love to wear some of them but don't...because I worry that this will make it seem normal and acceptable to wear new fur. I'm also a bit scared of being attacked in the street a la Anna Wintour!

herethereandeverywhere · 26/10/2016 09:09

Unless you're all wearing vegan leather alternatives then the industry which processes leather and the petro-chemical industry which makes plastic alternatives are responsible for hideous deaths of wildlife on a mass scale with all the pollutants released into the environment. Avoiding fur and pretending it's all ok is pretty naive.

Middleoftheroad · 26/10/2016 09:13

I'm a veggie, so no.
I once knew a vegan who wore a battered leather jacket. He claimed that as it was second hand it was ethically OK and meant the animal's death hadn't been completely in vain by being worn by just one owner.
Hmmm.....

IJustLostTheGame · 26/10/2016 09:22

I wear my pre 1960s fur when it's really cold.
I don't buy leather.
I don't buy beauty products that are tested on animals.
I will buy my buav approved beauty products whilst wearing my fur coat and vegetarian shoes (even though I'm not a vegetarian) and look fabulous doing it.

I also don't care what people think.

I don't like people buying non free range eggs. But I don't go chasing them down in the supermarket pelting them with their cruel eggs screaming murderers.

FuckThatToOneSide · 26/10/2016 09:30

Thanks for info sparechange!

SuburbanRhonda · 26/10/2016 09:43

with all the pollutants released into the environment.

Do you have a link for that, here?

herethereandeverywhere · 26/10/2016 10:06

Rhonda

wiki link leather processing

herethereandeverywhere · 26/10/2016 10:07

Youi do need to scroll down for the summarised bit about environmental impacts, a quote from that link is as follows:

"In addition to the other environmental impacts of leather, the production processes have a high environmental impact, most notably due to:

the heavy use of polluting chemicals in the tanning process
air pollution due to the transformation process (hydrogen sulfide during dehairing and ammonia during deliming, solvent vapours).
One tonne of hide or skin generally leads to the production of 20 to 80 m3 of turbid and foul-smelling wastewater, including chromium levels of 100–400 mg/L, sulfide levels of 200–800 mg/L and high levels of fat and other solid wastes, as well as notable pathogen contamination. Pesticides are also often added for hide conservation during transport. With solid wastes representing up to 70% of the wet weight of the original hides, the tanning process comes at a considerable strain on water treatment installations.[7]

Tanning is especially polluting in countries where environmental norms are lax, such as in India - the world's 3d largest producer and exporter of leather. To give an example of an efficient pollution prevention system, chromium loads per produced tonne are generally abated from 8 kg to 1.5 kg. VOC emissions are typically reduced from 30 kg/t to 2 kg/t in a properly managed facility. Very clearly, the process remains highly polluting all the same. A review of the total pollution load decrease achievable according to the United Nations Industrial Development Organization [8] posts precise data on the abatement achievable through industrially proven low-waste advanced methods, while noting that « Even though the chrome pollution load can be decreased by 94% on introducing advanced technologies, the minimum residual load 0.15 kg/t raw hide can still cause difficulties when using landfills and composting sludge from wastewater treatment on account of the regulations currently in force in some countries. »

In Kanpur, the self-proclaimed "Leather City of World" and a city of 3 million people on the banks of the river Ganges, pollution levels were so high that, despite an industry crisis, the pollution control board has decided to seal 49 high-polluting tanneries out of 404 in July 2009.[9] In 2003 for instance, the main tannery's effluent disposal unit was dumping 22 tonnes of chromium-laden solid waste per day in the open.[10]

The higher cost associated to the treatment of effluents as compared to untreated effluent discharging leads to environmental dumping to reduce costs. For instance, in Croatia in 2001, proper pollution abatment cost 70-100 USD/t of raw hides processed against 43 USD/t for irresponsible behaviour.[11]

No general study seems to exist, but the current news is rife with documented examples of untreated effluent discharge. In November 2009 for instance, it was discovered that one of Uganda's main leather producing companies directly dumped its waste water in a wetland adjacent to Lake Victoria.[12]"

ladyformation · 26/10/2016 10:59

I wear vintage furs - mostly family heirlooms, one coat that I bought myself - and don't see any issue with it. I love them and think it would be pointless for them to get eaten by moths somewhere.

Goes without saying that I wouldn't wear modern furs.

I also wear leather (though not much), but I've been a vegetarian for 20 years so I figure actually my impact is minimal. I've reached a compromise that I'm comfortable with. I agree that I find it very strange when people are uncomfortable about leather or vintage fur but happy to eat meat...

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