How to become a competently made-up person in your 40s?

[grimupnorthLondon]

Am cautiously peeking my head in here to ask for help from you lovely people who understand make up. I was a bare-faced 20 something and just about mastered moisturiser and concealer in my 30s. As I enter my 40s this is clearly no longer going to work without people running away screaming, so I have been studiously watching make-up tutorials, buying brushes and practising eyeshadow, brows and foundation.

I can now just about do those basics but am terrified that I look like mutton trying to paint itself as lamb - whatever eye shadow I buy turns out to be inappropriately sparkly, even when I think it is matte in the shop, I am terrified about having 'orange lines' so overblend foundation until it basically disappears, and mascara tends to end up half way down my cheeks within half an hour. Blusher and lip liner are too terrifying to even contemplate. I work in the City and am 'the boss' so am wary of people sniggering as I inadvertently turn myself into an Aunt Sally.

The tutorials are good for techniques but there are so many out there and the product recommendations are so baffling that I just want a grown up to tell me how to develop a 10-15 minute routine to make myself look like an understated but put-together 41 year old.

Is there a magic place I can go where a fairy godmother will lead me around, tell me which skincare and make-up products to buy and show me how to apply them? Can any individual stand in a beauty hall/Space NK do that or will they just try to flog me their most expensive stuff? I am prepared to invest a reasonable amount (currently experimenting with MAC, Benefit, Nars, Clarins type ranges but might splash out for a miracle de-aging brand) and, if it's relevant, I have very pale, Irish skin, dark hair and the roundest/most hamster-cheeked face imaginable.

Thank you in advance from an incompetent human being

Yes, she taught technique as well as product. I've had free makeovers over the years from Bobbi Brown and the usual suspects but no brand produces the best in class for every product. Space NK's was the most amateur and the hardest sell by a long way.

Grew up the daughter of academics in Oxford and was at Cambridge in the early 90s so know exactly what you mean about disapproving about frivolous things like appearance. Wasn't until I moved to London and into the commercial world that I realised intelligence+presentation is a very powerful combo.

That's exactly my thinking W8Woman - that you need someone who will give you a neutral view on different brands. I may not know much about make-up but I do understand brand marketing.

Thanks again - I really appreciate the tip and may well contact her.

She did charge a tidy amount but it was worth it. She told me to not bother with a few spendy products I'd bought for years so actually saved me some money. Some of her favourite items were dirt cheap and have lasted me ages. I still have the eyebrow pencil I bought from her - you need so little it seems to last forever - and it's miles better than the Chanel product I'd bought for years.

No relation or anything, I just thought she was wonderful. If you do see her, fix up a fancy date afterwards so you get your money's worth. I had the best face of my life, went home to an empty house, and cried my eyes out .

A pp mentioned beauty flash balm earlier - it's by Clarins, not Clinique. I've always liked Clarins' skin care and whether I've been 18 or 40 something it has never irritated my skin. Not cheap, but feels like a worthwhile treat. If you buy something from Clarins they will usually give you samples of other things to try. That's a great way of seeing whether you like a product and whether it suits you without splashing out.

I've always hated cleansers (takes too long and too much faff) and prefer to wash my make up off. There are lots of good facial washes out there. I sometimes use a gentle eye make-up remover to get rid of the last traces of mascara - worth having and works on anything stubborn too, like long-lasting lipstick.

Start off with the basics, get to grips with them and take it from there.

Aw W8woman, I really know that feeling. I had a French exchange when I was about 17 who was brilliant at makeup and kindly spent hours doing mine for me. When she went to bed I stared at myself in the mirror and then cried all night. I think if you are an academic high achiever/career person, your relationship with femininity and beauty can be really complicated. You have this career that many people couldn't get but always a feeling that there was a memo that you missed about the day to day stuff and that your 'achievement' means nothing if you don't know how to make yourself attractive.

I am always really pleased when the clever 20-something girls who work for me turn up looking glamorous and confident.

I fear that if she looked in my make up bag and saw cheap boots this and that, Clinique bb cream, silver eyeliners from the market, she would be horrified.

I fear that if she looked in my make up bag and saw cheap boots this and that, Clinique bb cream, silver eyeliners from the market, she would be horrified.

grim, i'm so glad you started this thread. i feel like i'm really rubbish at this stuff - currently a sahm and can hardly even get my hair to not stick up all over the place. shudder to think what morning routine will have to be like to put makeup on once i go back to work.

Ah, yes - I am also a 90's girl and the 'natural' look was the only thing to aspire to, wasn't it?

I too have decided to start wearing a little bit more make-up. I am trying to get it established as a habit, so that it becomes er habitual!

So most of my work days I do lips (Clinque Black Honey) and have now added eyes (Black-brown mascara Boots), plus a bit of No 7 purple eye pencil. I have a Clinique Chubby Stick, but haven't quite worked that into my routine yet. However, I had never before appreciated that I am lucky to have dark lashes - so for many years I could get away with no make-up beyond lipstick.

I am playing around with the cheaper brands before going high end.

I am strangely comforted to know it's not just me. And on the bright side, those of us now learning makeup are having all the excitement of discovery that most people finished with 20 years ago. Thanks everyone!

I know you said you don't like tutorial videos but I really like Lisa Eldridge's.

www.lisaeldridge.com

Have a look at her 'everyday make up' videos.

So I'm fast approaching 40 - hopefully I can add I have however been using makeup for a long long time.

However - I've never been heavy handed on makeup but have some daily favourites I use

For me the only foundation is Dior Forever - it is crazy expensive but a little goes a long way and they match it to your skin.

If you go to a Dior counter they will do a "make over" for free and at least if you rock up match the foundation to your skin.

I also like benefit, general mumsnet opinion (from what I've seen) is a no to benefit but I've had several full make overs for nothing and have super sensitive skin

I love bobby brown for a blusher type thing gives a glow

And mascara, I use Blinc - it's a tube mascara so never a panda eye in sight

I didn't really start until over 45 as I had good skin. I've still not dared attempt eyeliner but I'm good on under eye, looking radiant and lippy. I use mascara but only vv occasionally use eye shadow. I think I look smart enough for work.

I use whatever products are right. After years of spending nothing I'm happy to spend £60 on the perfect bronzer from Space NK which has lasted over a year.

Lisa Eldridge is really good.

Also there are a few 'rules' I stick to now I can't get away with teenager makeup:

Eyeshadow is always matt.

Foundation can age you - BB cream is better and easier to colour match.
Eyeliners should be dark but not black which is too harsh for most people as they get older. Dark brown, navy or grey are all good.
Always curl your eyelashes, it really opens your eyes up.
Either have your eyes or your lips as a 'focal point', not both. If you're wearing lots of eye makeup, just use lipgloss or a nude lipstick. If you're wearing a bright or dark lipstick, wear minimum eye makeup.
And always do your eyebrows - just a quick brush through and a little extra definition with a brown pencil or shadow can take years off.

Obviously just my rules but they work for me!

Ooh and one more - apply blusher last. You can't judge how much to apply until you've done your eyes and lips and it stops you overdoing it.

I'm older than you and look completely awful with no make up.

My daily make up is:

moisturise
sun block
foundation - currently using Dior Star but love the new Clinique Super Balanced Silk - better than any Bobbi Brown ( and have tried nearly all)
Bobbi Brown powder- really light dusting on T zone
B Brown powder blusher
B Brown creamy concealer under eyes
Lancome Hypnose mascara
Bobbi Brown eye shadow (cement or wheat)
B Brown gel eyeliner stick
Same eyeshadow used as eyebrow filler-in
B Brown Lip liner
Clinique Pop lipstick or a Laura Mercier gel /gloss one- nude shades

The whole lot takes me 15 minutes or 10 if I am in a real hurry

Natural daylight is a good tip

I've just turned 40 and started using CC cream (Erborian) which is magic. I tint my eyelashes because it's very little effort for the impact. Otherwise still avoiding makeup proper but even with just those changes I have had quite a few compliments. Maybe I'll save proper makeup for when I turn 50!

One thing I'd add is brushes. I am currently adding to my collection and am convinced a good brush is worth investing in. It really helps to get a light application of the product. I don't really like foundation brushes (have one) but I do rate eye shadow brushes for light application, blusher brushes ( for same reason- a really big ones helps it looking heavy handed) and a powder brush. I've been buying Bobbi Brown ones which are expensive but so far they have been washed loads and look as new.

Glycolic acids or salicylic like nip and fab from superdrug
They clear pores great so make up goes on smoothly and no blackheads
I wish I had known about this 20 years ago

thanks kennington. Do you put them on before your moisturiser or afterwards?

Oh and thanks Yika - it's not that I dislike tutorial videos, just that I was a bit bewildered by the plethora of advice out there but those Lisa Eldridge ones look great

2 things: OP don't introduce loads of new products at once or you risk messing up your skin! And I'd be really careful with acids in particular because they don't agree with everyone and can cause some very stubborn, long-lasting breakouts. One thing at a time or you might react to something and not know what it is. The second thing is W8woman please will you divulge the products the mua said were good? I'm always after trying new stuff (hence my breakout warnings!)

Acids before moisturiser but I agree with madmomma only use them occasionally
I use mine once a week!

Madmomma Happy to tell you the products she 'prescribed' but obviously they are tailored to you and your skin type/personal needs. For example all my products were dry because I spend a lot of time in the car.

Red lipstick is Mac's Viva Glam topped with a tiny dab of gloss. Honestly red lipstick has magical powers and has changed my life - if you feel shit it actually lifts your mood. I used to wear a classic pink brown nude but she told me it was too meek and pretty and I needed something bold. Lipstick has to work with your personality as well as your colouring.

Amazing Base powder foundation from Jane Iredale. This is a pain in the backside to apply in a hurry so she also told me to buy the Jane Iredale pressed powder foundation in a shade which unfortunately isn't such a good match for me. (The pressed colour choices may have increased since then but my skin has improved dramatically since I became peri-menopausal and so I don't really need foundation now).

Bronzer was the same Jane Iredale formulation in three shades darker. Apparently the rule is powder with powder, cream with cream when matching foundation with blusher and bronzer.

Nars Orgasm blush - only product I wasn't convinced by and have gone back to my Chanel.

The amazing eyebrow pencil is a buff colour from a brand called Brenda Christian. It never smears. I'm still using the same pencil and it is years old now.

She told me I was using Touche Eclat wrong and taught me the right way to use it, but said it was a great product.

She told me mascaras are all much the same but showed me how to bend the brush so you can apply it in the rear view mirror at traffic lights without smudges.

Shu Uemura curlers on lashes but I already had these.

Brown eyeshadow as liner - think it was Clinique but she said any will do. She used two of the colours in my own Dior 5-pan eyeshadows to lift my eyelids but here it's knowing where to put the colours, not the colours themselves, that matters. Different for everyone because of eye shape. Mine are very round and she showed me how to elongate them.

Her best product is an eyeshadow called Foggy that she used to contour my face into magnificent cheekbones, but I've never managed to use it as well as she did.

She wrote everything down for me on a sheet so if I can find it I will post up some more products, but these ones are the ones I remember because they're still the ones I use every day.