Dressing for work in an American corporation

[CloserToFiftyThanTwenty]

Just that - what is essential to look professional in a US blue chip company? I'm assuming a suit / day dress is standard wear, along with decent shoes and bag. But what about the subtle stuff: manicure / hair / make up / tights?

Any advice much appreciated!

But New York is most scruffy too. That's what I really don't get.

'mostly scruffy', sorry!

Yes, Flo, unease is a good description! I can't help feeling that yet again the standards for men and women are set at different levels, in the US at least. There's a difference between basic levels of grooming / manicure / styling (men) and the expectations that seem to be foisted on the women. I bet the men don't spend an hour each day giving themselves a perfect blow dry and doing their face. And the horror that someone should turn up for work with unpainted nails!

Totally with you on the barefeet thing stitch!

The other thing that bothers me about this from a feminist point of view is that it's not going to be the men standing around bitching about a colleague's unimpressive jewellery, chipped nail polish or last season's outfit and making her feel like she doesn't fit in, is it? We inflict this on ourselves .

I have no idea why the impression has been formed that there is bitching involved. That's a huuuuge leap to make!

holmes American men in my corporate job definitely did comment on what I wore - I remember getting compliments on my "sleek handbag" from my heterosexual male colleague .

My overwhelming impression when I worked in the States is that people in their early-mid twenties dressed the same as their parents, and drove the same types of cars. It is quite weird - this was the mid-West though, I've never been to NY.

I definitely think there is an interesting inverse scruffiness snobbery in some UK workplaces. Some academics view their more stylish colleagues with barely concealed contempt, as though the act of dressing smartly and wearing lipstick has somehow inhibited their brain function (and I must admit, this is more common amongst female academics). It definitely isn't OK IME to go to work in muddy shoes, or looking 'mimsy', ie, the Cath Kidston look, in most workplaces - it doesn't make you more 'authentic', it just looks inappropriate.

I think one of the things some British women struggle with is the urge to look 'wacky', a la Boden. To be honest, I think the British workplace would not be worse off without some of those Boden 'fun' prints. How 'fun' should a skirt be FGS?

I realy like the way I see Italian and Spanish women dress in cities - grown up, not 'wacky' (shudder), but interesting and stylish and not drone-like a la USA.

both the British version of a well dressed senior woman ("I'm clean, I'm well dressed, beyond that I give zero fucks because I've got higher thongs to think about") and the American version ("my hair and nails are done because I'm hard-working and efficient and I take care of all the details, I'd never insult colleagues or clients by not being fully prepared for work") are designed to convey a serious attitude towards work.
We have cultural differences around work appearance that involve what we think conveys seriousness, but that's true of any foreign country.

there is something something about a uniform, the grooming requirements may seem higher than the UK but you have a uniform which means you aren't flailing in the dark... that rather reduces mental effort, in some ways.
also keeping your nails & cuticle etc trimmed takes 10 minutes once a week, often while getting your eyebrows done. i don't do it, but i know many people who nip out for that kind of thing whole their children are at a swimming lesson or whatever.

Ahahaha, now I'm wincing at the idea of higher thongs..higher things, obv.

also I meant to write "something soothing about a uniform."
I've just woken up

How 'fun' should a skirt be FGS?

Does it actually matter? I mean their isn't a moral content to these decisions, it's really just about what aspects of yourself/your workplace you are referencing in your clothes. So if it isn't essential to project a particular type of client-facing Armani-like navy suit-type vibe, why not have skirts with frogs on or whatever.

Why shouldn't a skirt be fun I LOVE my Eiffel Tower print pencil skirts from Get Cutie and my American colleagues have admired them. We spend so much time at work why not show at least a little personality?

I remember reading Americanah and the issue of black women having their hair relaxed to be taken seriously in a professional job in the US and having natural hair wasn't really an option if you wanted to progress. That also made me depressed.

It's all so counter-productive. There's value in people dressing 'for work' as it puts people in a particular frame of mind but beyond some pretty straightforward guidelines, it's really just an over-weaning imposition on workers.

Can I just say that a corporate barbecue that involves being in swimwear around my work colleagues sounds like the very worst sort of torture I can imagine.

and the Italian women rolled out of bed at 8:55, lit a cigarette, painted a really thick line of ink jet black eyeliner and looked fabulous

I want to be like the Italians. What do they wear that differentiates them from Americans and British? I work where anything goes but this thread is fascinating.

I think it's a mistake to think that American working women, and men, share the same values, background and considerations as British people when deciding how to dress. The USA has an entirely different history, and work culture. There are different work practices, and, I think I'm right in saying that jobs can be a lot less secure there than we are used to. Therefore, wouldn't it make sense to dress appropriately, which, to us, might seem very conservative.
I agree with whoever said we err towards the "wacky"

There isn't a moral content to these decisions but there are messages being sent out. Signs, semiotics, all that sort of things. Come to think of it, I think some people do think there is a moral component. Letting yourself go, lack of self respect etc - you hear these phrases used around clothes. And people can be very judgey about children's clothes.

I just want to point out as others have that there are big regional and industry differences in the US. For example, I'm in the South where all those diamonds at work would not be acceptable.

I'm also wondering how school uniform plays into any of this. From this thread it seems that dress expectations for work are less stringent in the UK and more wackiness is acceptable. Yet so many threads suggest that many schools are getting more stringent about school uniform, and often the excuse is to teach children to dress smartly so that they will know how to dress in the workplace. Most Americans don't have school uniform, but the rules for the workplace are often very much a uniform (in NYC especially).

On the white shoes after Labor Day business, y'all need to read A Southern Belle Primer: Why Princess Margaret Will Never Be a Kappa Kappa Gamma. (Kappa Kappa Gamma is one of the more elite college sororities.) Evidently poor Princess M turned up somewhere in the South wearing white shoes after Labor Day.

The only worse thing than a corporate beach party would be a corporate spa day.

Men in the us are under just as much pressure. When I go to my dermatologist for my rosacia the room is filled with an equal mix of men and women getting Botox and fillers. Bruce Willis did men here a huge favor by getting the close shave hair cut for men into fashion. Others do plugs or use rogaine.

With regards to clothing the men are spending just as much time and money on their clothing and appearance. Go to any gym around here and there are lots of men working out to stay slim rather than build muscle.

I found this webpage which talks about business dress code in nyc pretty much reflecting what those of us who have worked there have said on this thread!

Supermum where I used to work, men were only allowed to wear white shirts and they weren't allowed to roll up the sleeves .

Anyone else recall the end of 'Ghe devil wears Prada' when she turns up at the new job (magazine) and the staff look like they are in a British office?

Or 'The' even!

The staff in The Devil Wears Prada don't like like a British magazine office.

She meant the staff in the office at the new job after she leaves the Vogue office. Current affairs magazine or something.