Dressing for work in an American corporation

[CloserToFiftyThanTwenty]

Just that - what is essential to look professional in a US blue chip company? I'm assuming a suit / day dress is standard wear, along with decent shoes and bag. But what about the subtle stuff: manicure / hair / make up / tights?

Any advice much appreciated!

My US friends stop wearing bikinis once they've had babies - however good their bodies are it just isn't done. One of my friends moved back to Richmond Va, had 2 children and was still under 30 & that was that, no more bikinis. There are so many other dress codes which we are not used to, like when you can wear white or patent shoes tied into things like Labor Day or Memorial Day.

So... what are the equivalent rules for men? Similarly restrictive? I doubt it...

Ha ha, this all reminds me of an article I read in British Vogue many years ago. The writer had gone to some sort of international meeting or convention, and she wrote (I'm obviously paraphrasing here): that the next morning, American women had woken up at 5am, gone for a run, showered and applied a full face of makeup and done their hair perfectly; the British women were huddling in a corner sporting birds nests' hair and bitterly regretting having kissed Kenny the photocopier guy at last night's office do, and the Italian women rolled out of bed at 8:55, lit a cigarette, painted a really thick line of ink jet black eyeliner and looked fabulous, and all the other women hated them

"Re. the news reader issue though - you can slap on as much make up and as many diamonds as you want, but it will be a cold day in hell before I believe a word out of the mouth of anyone on fox news, whereas the bbc had been trusted internationally for decades. I don't equate the quality of the journalism with the quality of the blow dry, and I think anyone that does is more than a little bit silly."

Bosswitch I do think you're missing the point. It's nothing to do with the journalism (after all, all they're doing is reading words off a teleprompter). We're talking about first impressions, which is a form of personal branding. If we were talking about only the integrity of the journalism, it wouldn't matter if the presenter were wearing an Anal Cunt t-shirt.

The woman who posted above about the LA recruiter who nicely told her she looked a mess wasn't being a bitch - she was doing her job, and telling the client what she needed to hear regarding how she came across for interviews. An American in the same position with a London recruiter would also likely be given some insight on how she came across in British culture.

"So... what are the equivalent rules for men? Similarly restrictive? I doubt it..."

No, they have rules, too. However, men's fashion is less of a minefield. Women's fashion is more variable, based on disposable trends, and fashion media often sabotages women with ridiculous ideas of what looks appropriate (anyone remember Ally McBeal and their crotch-length skirts in a law office?) And it's true that women have to work harder at dressing in a way that conveys authority because we live in a patriarchy that is still getting used to women in power. So, things like "Casual Friday" can undermine women in ways men are not. So do things like corporate BBQ's with swimming, as I experienced. The men all happily donned trunks and swam in the boss's pool but the women mostly did not because, no matter how unfair it is or how conservative the swimsuit, there's a lot to lose by wearing a swimsuit in front of your colleagues.

But British newsreaders have worked their way up to that position over time spent as reporters. They are journalists, not just teleprompter monkeys.

That is still nothing to do with the point, Bosswitch! It doesn't matter what product a corporation is selling or how intelligent and qualified the person working for them is. It's about impressions.

The British public clearly doesn't view BBC newsreaders the same way I do because they are in a culture that considers their grooming and attire normal for professionals/media. I am not saying that they are dressed inappropriately - they clearly are dressed appropriately for their culture. It would be inappropriate for CNN in America. My point is that what is considered smart and appropriate and professional (ie, carry authority) in the UK is not the same as in the US.

And if an American reporter started working at the BBC, I'm sure she'd lose the helmet hair and boxy fuschia blazers and start wearing flimsy tops from the High Street shops.

Totally agree with Fabulaisse's last 2 posts.

Casual Friday has been my personal work nightmare for years. I am petite and v young looking, but can dress with style and authority Monday to Thursday. I used to feel that I undid all that hard work on a Friday and think I am only now learning to also do business casual with style and authority.

There are rules for men. The days of turning up in any old crappy suit and tie, or that loud yuppie pinstripe suit are long gone. But as already said its a lot easier for men to get it right as there is less variety.

I probably should add that I am NOT saying that "Fox Newsreader" is the way to dress at a Manhattan law firm. That wouldn't go over well at all. The point is only about general standards of grooming and public perception.

Oh yes the LA recruiter wasn't being a bitch at all. She was very good to me and I liked her. But our meeting crystallised something very important that I was already 90% of the way to. I don't want to spend my life in that world. I didn't follow up, and neither did she

For the record, I looked absolutely fine!

(she shrieked )

Ah ok fab, fair point. My fault for skim reading while prepping breakfast!

In my dressing gown, been a sahm for 4 months now and loving this thread. Reminds me of good chick lit (maybe slightly anxious about going back to work )

To those in NYC, is there any self-awareness about all this grooming? I mean, does anyone say: 'If I didn't spend my time getting my nails done every week I could spend more time with my kids/learning the oboe/going for a stroll with my lover?'

I like this thread too. It's like a glimpse into another world. I'm curious - when you work in this sort of global culture, do you have corporate mentors who explain what's what? Or is it more informal and you just have to make misakes and pick it up as you go along?

5 years in DC, not working, but definitely observing! Mens workwear.
When DH arrived he had a vibrant collection of shirts and ties from Thomas Pink, Austin Reed etc. These were branded "very European". By the time we left, he was much more dressed down, polos and khakis (chinos) and hardly ever wore a tie. Suit, but still no tie for business meetings.
My favourite moment, clothes shopping with him at Pentagon City Mall, next to, guess what, the Pentagon! In Jos A Banks ( very conventional workwear retailer), a man was trying on a jacket and considering whether it was the right size to fit his gun holster under it!
For women, dress seemed much more practical than here. There were the extremes of climate to consider.
Oh, and I still couldn't help staring when I saw women in full length real furs.
Couldn't ever imagine that in the UK.

AddtoBasket, you just fit in. In a lot of these organisations the ability to survive in very little sleep is a good thing. It still leaves you plenty of time for kids, sex and hobbies.

As regards mentoring, some organisations do a formal thing where someone advises you on dress. I mentor both women and men and have had to have presentation type conversations as in no one is going to take you seriously if you....!

A lot depends on the industry/location. Some city's formal isnt even as nice as other city's business casual, never mind formal business. Some regions/industries run at a business casual for almost every situation except weddings/funerals or actual athletics.

From way up thread: daily shaving means less attentive shaving. Shaving once a week, or when you notice/think about it and then taking the time to pay close attention and be as complete as possible eventually results in a day when you realise you should have, but you didnt. Running the razor over your legs and pits during every shower means though you may miss a bit each day, it probably isnt the same bit, so you dont reach the point of desperately needing a complete shave.

YY to glimpse into another world. I'm gripped. And reassured to realise how bad I would be in said world. I could just about hack it in women's mags here by working a bohemian/bluestocking look but I could never have managed corporate NY.

novice, re sleep! We did notice that at parties, there would be a big exodus at ten and certainly no later than eleven. Early to bed...........

in the US, colored tights were VERY in in the 1980s. Since then, they have been VERY out, unless you are in a creative field, (teaching might fall in that category). Even little girls wear a limited range: pink, navy blue, white, black, maybe deep green red at christmas.)

Black and/or patterned tights are for party clothes, or being sexy not appropriate for work unless you are one of those who can manage an all black all the time wardrobe standard.

Wow, I've been reading this with increasing horror fascination! I've never worked in the US and genuinely didn't appreciate how different things are there. Yes, first impressions are important wherever you are, and it's a sad fact that people do form snap judgments based on appearance rather than quality of work. My conclusion though is that there seems to be far more latitude in the UK (based on the descriptions given in this thread of what constitutes "acceptable" in the US).
I've been thinking about the successful women I know in my very corporate, male-dominated UK industry. There's a whole range of styles and looks, but the one thing the successful women have in common is that they all look as though they have taken care and made an effort, albeit within different frameworks (eg power suits / boho chic / pared down corporate wear / etc). It's got me thinking about my own wardrobe for when I return from maternity leave though!

Me too Mame. Reading this thread, I've gone from to to and back again.

I do feel uneasy at the amount of time and money women are expected to spend on 'grooming' in this corporate US world. I've no problem with dressing appropriately and I get all the stuff about promoting an image but at a gut level, it still doesn't feel right.

In practically every workplace I know of (except possibly schools), dress codes in the UK have really loosened up in the last ten years or so. When I started in my sector, there was an unspoken (crashingly dull) uniform of black trousers and a top but nowadays, unless you're public facing, pretty much anything goes and you're considered smart if you wear a tube skirt. Yet corporate USA seems to be heading off in the opposite direction. Strange and fascinating.

I still maintain that most people in NYC look pretty scruffy!

Sometimes I think there's too much anything goes in the UK. The walking around in bare feet threads always make me feel a bit queasy. I am pretty scruffy myself, but that seems very wrong to me. But maybe that's more of a private dress code in a public arena sort of thing. Bare feet go with beaches and bathrooms and bedrooms and the idea of them at work seems very out of place. But tons of people will come on to defend their bare toes.