What's your definition of frumpy?

[stripytees]

I don't know if this is an MN thing but I'm always seeing people saying clothes from brands like Boden and White Stuff are frumpy.

I don't understand.

My definition of frumpy is someone who dresses very plain and quite old-fashioned - like black or navy work trousers (probably badly fitting) with a plain t-shirt that was bought 10 years ago and got a bit out of shape, with a cardigan that is slightly too big and probably in an unflattering colour, worn with very sensible shoes like those from the Clarks UnStructured range.

Boden and White Stuff and other similar brands on the other hand sell short, colourful dresses and skirts, scoop neck tops, bright prints, high heels and colourful flats... the opposite of frumpy! But maybe I'm odd because I don't even consider M&S clothes frumpy although I think it's also possible to buy frumpy clothes from M&S.

FWIW I'm in my early 30's.

I am an hour glass (36,26,35). Agree v necks are our friend also need to be confident about showing just the right amount of cleavage (as one sales woman told me once just a shadow, except in very high summer) this frequently involves a vest on display so I have some cool plain vests which coordinate with my v-neck sweaters and dresses.Things HAVE to go in at the waist or I look 4 months pregnant, I can't do empire lines or tunics-instant frump. But I imagine if you are of bambiesque proportions they look lovely. I cannot do waif.

I think most people look like all the other people. Not many of us wear clothes that are interesting, or put them on in any other way that is conventional. We also dress according to what we are going to do. (Stupid me has destroyed ballgowns by climbing fences and rowing boats in them though). Most of my clothes are old, cheap and scruffy. Most of them...!

A good bra and a slash neck with slightly hipster jeans gives me a torso and a bit of a waist. V neck I am like an apple on stilts!

A good bra is vital.

How do alternative clothing/styles fit into this discussion?
For example I wear a combination of gothic/steampunk/vintage clothing and wouldn't be seen dead in jeans or trousers of any description. Does having an alternative style mean you are automatically excluded from being a candidate for frump?

I think individual over rides frump tbh

I think individual overrides frump too. Unless it's clothing from Joe Browns. Nearly everything they sell could come under the heading of 'hippy frump'.

I think there are crossable lines, Shadows. My DSis's girlfriend is a goth and often seeks second opinions as to whether or not a look is veering into art teacher She is very careful with earrings, gemstones, long skirts and anything that looks like she made it herself.

No offence to art teachers, btw, they are the best teachers ever.

One of my pet peeves (I have many) is 30something + men in t-shirts, jeans and trainers, ugh.

Seriously? What are men suppose to wear when casual if not t-shirt, jeans and trainers. Every man I know wears that, and I'm in my 40s. Sure, the skinny ones look better than those with a paunch but that's the body under the clothes, not the clothes themselves.

I've forgotten her name but there is one woman scientist who is very high profile and wear red leather mini skirts, killer heels and make up (and has long blonde hair.) Why should being fashionable mean you leave your brain on your dressing table?

So when have you seen her wear that? On TV presumably, in a media role where she will have been picked for her looks as much as her knowledge, she may well have been dressed by a stylist. I can guarantee that she has never worn clothes like that when working in a lab, a tight skirt and killer heels are not practical and most of the outfit wouldn't be seen under a labcoat anyway. Heavy makeup seems a bit daft under safety specs. We have safety regulations at work (pharmaceutical industry) that require us to wear steel toed shoes in a lot of places, as a minimum there is a restriction on heel height, and open toes (all shoes must be leather). There has been much discussion about banning bare legs (for safety reasons so a pair of sheer tights wouldn't really cut it, trousers only). High fashion clothes for women generally are not practical if you are doing anything more strenuous than sitting at a desk. That's why you wouldn't be taken seriously if you turned up to my work dressed very fashionably, it would signal that you aren't taking your job seriously.

I felt frumpy yesterday. Black skinny jeans were ok. Black heeled ankle boots ok. Bright swing coat with funnel neck ok. But the jumper I threw on in a I Have Nothing To Wear moment rendered it all frumpy - it was the neckline - too scoopy and not high and not low - it just did me no favours. And I have an inbetween haircut at the mo and I just didn't feel sharp enough.
So it's not any one thing, more little design details.

I've forgotten her name but there is one woman scientist who is very high profile and wear red leather mini skirts, killer heels and make up (and has long blonde hair.) Why should being fashionable mean you leave your brain on your dressing table?

That'll be Susan Greenfield, I bet - [http://www.nndb.com/people/962/000169455/susan-greenfield-1-sized.jpg here]

I think frumpy is often just wearing the wrong things together - so the practical waterproof anorak with every outfit, having one pair of shoes that you wear with every outfit etc. But you can get away with lots of things if you are very beautiful Corrie's Hayley was, surely, the epitome of frumpy.

Seriously? What are men suppose to wear when casual if not t-shirt, jeans and trainers. Every man I know wears that, and I'm in my 40s. Sure, the skinny ones look better than those with a paunch but that's the body under the clothes, not the clothes themselves

Luckily I don't know too many men who wear this look but I see loads around looking pants.

Jeans are fine if they fit ok, consider the Jeremy Clarkson bum and the Simon Cowell waist. T-shirts and trainers are not ok: shirts, shoes and boots are the answer.

Men with paunches should not be wearing t-shirts full stop.

I'm busty and broad shouldered, 5'6 ish. My frump choice would be a pale pastel round neck jumper and a dark a line skirt. And short unstyled hair.

I can, however, get away with a joe brown skirt (much complimented).

Wear v necks to offset the matronly look.

Hair unstyled as I'm currently poor, but it's long and tied back.

Got a lot of style tips when I had one of those colour consultations. Definitely worth doing.

Frumpy to me is when you are 30, but dress like your 60 year old mother.

Sorry, just to add (I know some very stylish 60 year olds).

I was thinking of one friend in particular, who dressed like her Mother. Elasticated waist, long skirt, suede boots and over-sized jumper. She even had the same hair-do as her Mother. Lovely, lovely person, but I had to enlist the help of her teenage cousin to give her a bit of advice about her dress sense. She looks amazing now - frumpiness all gone.

Lucy can we have fewer of the ageist comments please? :)
I'm pushing 60 with a DD late 20s and our wardrobes are pretty much interchangeable some of the time: skinny jeans, boots, tops, scarves and skirts. She even borrows my clothes at times and we are both a size 10. Mini rant over.

Frumpy is not knowing what suits - and not caring! Nothing to do with labels or how much you spend. A stylish person can look stylish and shop in Primark a frump will look frumpy in Prada. There is no one set of rules because so much depends on your size, age and shape and it is perfectly possible to have been stylish in your 20s but frumpy at 40 if your style has stayed stuck in a rut (actually one of the frumpiest things you can do is still have the same hair and make up you had 20 years ago). A couple of general pointers though - sportswear is for doing sport, anoraks are for the beach and hills, and fleece does no one any favours. Also get a good hair cut - because whatever you wear your hair is there!

A lot of the most stylish people I know are 55+ - I think it is confidence and knowing what suits you.

I don't think frumpiness in itself is important but I do wonder what is says about someone
Do they not care ?
Did they never care?
Have they 'givenup'
I have a beloved friend who was very stylish in a classic way when in her forties-they have money and she 'hit her stride' so to speak .Had lovely clothes that suited her ,Ss did het hair,very long ,blonde, which she wore 'up' in a variety of styles,Now in her sixties she is definitely a frump-my DDs and DH have commented on it .Same hair,same makeup ,same specs as 20 years ago ' .Clothes in colours that don't suit her and styles that do little for her .It bothers me that it reflects how she feels about herself .It could be that it just doesn't matter to her and I respect that ,but it used to .
I do find as you get older that having DDs is a great antidote to getting frumpy .I have already had to promise never to wear beige (or variants of) or those washed out blue and greens that older women often favour.And have been told they will tell me when my hair (dyed) doesn't 'match' my as yet not too wrinkled face And I have my chin hairs epilatefand and my threatening moustache waxed,..
If you ever visit homes for older people it is very depressing looking around .You wonder if any of the residents ever cared..,,

I am 65 and love style, I definitely do not look frumpy and this takes a bit of effort as the generous boobs tend to have a matronly air !!
I might not always get it right, but even if it's wrong... it isn't frumpy :)

I do want to comment on previous post and yes it is certainly depressing to see older people in a care home situation where they need their moustache and chin waxed, their hair cut properly, and are possibly dressed in someone else's clothes and/or slippers. I have no doubt that most of them cared how they looked and would be really upset to see themselves as others now see them. I guess the carers don't have such details as chin hair on their agenda.

I have 4 sons and have jokingly suggested to their wives/partners/my friends..... if I'm ever in that situation and don't know what day it is please sort out my facial hair.

Sorry, just felt the need to mention that the care residents were also once young and hopefully full of life.

However, that is really a different discussion.

I agree - I work for an older people's charity and have met people who have had the most amazing lives, and beautiful photos of themselves at all ages looking very stylish indeed - many of our clients have dementia or physical difficulties and are being cared for or are in a position where they have to dress for medical practicalities. I certainly wouldn't assume that because some things are no longer a priority for whatever reason - such as makeup, or hair removal - that those individuals never cared...

White Stuff has become really frumpy. They have really changed their their target audience. It used to be a bit Sloaney, but they sold beach wear, ski wear, skimpy tops...

Now it's all about covering up problem areas with loud prints.