What's your definition of frumpy?

[stripytees]

I don't know if this is an MN thing but I'm always seeing people saying clothes from brands like Boden and White Stuff are frumpy.

I don't understand.

My definition of frumpy is someone who dresses very plain and quite old-fashioned - like black or navy work trousers (probably badly fitting) with a plain t-shirt that was bought 10 years ago and got a bit out of shape, with a cardigan that is slightly too big and probably in an unflattering colour, worn with very sensible shoes like those from the Clarks UnStructured range.

Boden and White Stuff and other similar brands on the other hand sell short, colourful dresses and skirts, scoop neck tops, bright prints, high heels and colourful flats... the opposite of frumpy! But maybe I'm odd because I don't even consider M&S clothes frumpy although I think it's also possible to buy frumpy clothes from M&S.

FWIW I'm in my early 30's.

You think all MNers wear 3 inch nude heels? How odd...

Just because teenagers wear Fatface doesn't mean it doesn't look frumpy on 40something women.

Teens could get away with wearing a dowdy Boden print dress and biker boots and look ingenue-kooky. A 40something would just look frumpsville.

This is such a fascinating thread. Nearly everyone I know is a frump by the definitions on here. I have tried and tried over the years to be interested in clothes (followed blogs, bought vogue etc) but I'm just not at all. And neither is anyone I know, I don't think. I pretty much get everything from a supermarket or charity shop.

Mind you if I had money I'd buy everything from Vivienne Westwood... She's the only one I like.

Look, people aren't idiots - Bra sizes have CHANGED!!!!

The rule used to be: measure underneath your boobs and add 2" if an even number, 3" if an odd number. So if, like me you measured 32" under the boobs, you would add 2" to get 34". That would be your band size.

Then you measured your bust itself. If it was the same as your band size (in my case 34", you would be an AA cup. 1" bigger was an A cup, 2" a B cup, 3" a C cup, 4" a D cup. Therefore someone like myself with a 32" under band measurement and a 38" bust measurement would be a 34D. Which I wore for years with no problems at all.

Then a few years ago the measurement system changed to this:
Band size is what you measure under your boobs full stop.
Measure your bust itself. Cup size is AA - same as band size, A - 1" more than band size, B - 2" more than band size, C - 3" more than band size, D - 4" more than band size. , D - 5" more than band size, E - 6" more than band size.

So at 32" underneath and 38" "on top," under the old system I used to be a 34D but in the new had to move to a 32E.

My old 34D bras did not fit badly - they fit fine. It's only if I bought a 34D bra now that the system has changed that they wouldn't fit.

You can't blame women for continuing to buy the size bra they have worn for 35 years when no one has bothered to tell them the sizing system has changed.

I get so frustrated reading posts on here "Oooh it turns out I've been wearing the wrong size bra for 15 yeeeeears!!!" No, you have been wearing the right size bra for 11 years but all the new ones you have bought since the sizes changed a few years ago ARE the wrong size. It's not your fault!

I'm 34D but I am 5'10, fairly large boned and size 14 top, this is with the new way of measuring, I used to be a 36B or 38B. I also don't think a size 10 could be a 34.

But with bras the thing that has changed is their shape. I can now get a bra that makes my 30fs look amazing and sit in a position that doesn't required waist adjustment in my jeans. The new shape makes all the difference and when I found it 7 years ago, it really changed how I felt about my boobs, they were still big but they no longer pointed South.

Yes in the old days, 34D as I am if I'm lucky, sometimes I have to have a C cup, was seen as large chested, I am anything but, in fact I am quite a mannish shape, tall, broad shouldered, fairly flat chested.

Saw a lady yesterday walking by the river in 3 inch patent heels.

I felt so sorry for her, walking in ankle deep mud in those shors.

She looked highly uncomfortable and worried and I judged her friends for taking her on a countryside walk like that!

I wonder if she was afraid she'd look frumpy in wellyboots

But as another poster here said, I dress "country" in my muddy village, the urban or fashion look actually looks silly when ankle deep in mud mud mud

Balloon when did the bra measuring system change? Am slightly disappointed as I thought the reason I now need a 34c instead of 34b is that my boobs had grown (well I had been pregnant)

I don't know aire, it's just that it definitely used to be done the first way I have described. M&S used to do it like that and it used to say in the catalogues (anyone remember Freemans and Great Universal?) to measure it the same way. And now it's done differently. I would say things changed 7 or 8 years ago?

Thanks balloon, the dates fit! Still sad that my boobs have not actually grown though

I don't think you can say any brand is inherently frumpy. Most brands feature some basic items which are wearable. However, the one I avoid at all costs is White Stuff. I just think the twee multi colouredness of it, and the different coloured buttonholes or random button is just too much.

Frumpiness is a state of mind, not dress. Basically people who aren't interested in clothes can look frumpy. I have a34jj bust, but dress to avoid it. So I'm not sure it's always about big boobs either

Frumpy shops - Bonne Marche, Per Una, Hotter, Wallis (these days) and the majority of stuff in Tu, Florence & Fred and George.

For me, it's the fleece, bad jeans and block heeled ankle boots look that screams 'frumpy'. Particularly black boots worn with light denim.

I'm very interested in your lost 15lbs, LaQueen. I know my clothes would look better with less padding, as it were. How did you do it? please don't say you joined a gym

I think frumpiness comes from not knowing what suits you, resulting in unflattering choices or practical clothes like fleeces and mum boots. This can easily happen after having kids if your shape changes. The other things mentioned I think are just a matter of taste. I tick many of the frump boxes on here, but I like my style and think it suits me. I personally dont like the 'polished' look and am drawn more to 'natural and blemished!'.

I was hoping you'd say that...

Thank you ??

did you cut out wine?

oh ??

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I've been pondering about the big boobs and overweight things, and while I agree that they make it much more difficult to dress well, I don't think they have anything to do with frumpiness - possibly because if you're overweight or have big knockers, you usually realize that lots of things don't suit you. (I am slightly overweight and have big boobs so talking about myself as well here).

The three women of around my age (pushing 40) who spring to mind immediately as 'frumpy' are all gorgeously tall and slender with figures to die for, but they dress terribly. Two of them wear nondescript jeans and jumpers, often with fleeces and walking shoes/boots (all the time - obviously a fleece and walking boots is entirely appropriate if you're actually off for a walk), and the other one is queen of the slightly too short cheap black bootcut trousers, mum ankle boots etc. Or - horror - pale wash bootcut jeans with pastel flowers embroidered on them that Per Una used to sell over 10 years ago. All 3 of them are really lovely, friendly ladies though.

I live in v necks to counter the matronly boobage.

The look I'd love to wear for work is high waisted trousers with high necked chiffon-y blouses - either Victoriana style or pussy bow. It's the polar opposite of what a short arse with big hips and massive bust should wear hence I am perennially in dresses and blazers or cardigans.

The v neck thing doesn't work for me I look worse in them with my boobs! I like a slash neck shape.

And I can't wear a slash neck or boat neck because my shoulders are so narrow that it doesn't sit right, but a v neck or scoop neck sets my rack off just nicely. It's become harder to find that sort of neckline on something that isn't too fitted, mind - I now have lumps, rather than curves, and over the past 4-5 years have had to concede that I can't wear anything body conscious or clingy on top.

And I despair of t-shirts with modal mixed in. They cling to everything. Horrid.

I can't stand scoop necks they scream frump to me - big boobs or not they just feel a bit meh. I can't wear cardigans either - they are instant frump, they always make me look matronly.