Vanity sizing re-visited...

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I know this has been discussed before, but I think it's getting worse...

I was just thinking after a recent shopping trip to j crew in London. I have not shopped there much but have a top from there, purchased about 5 years ago. It's a size small. But when I went there recently I tried on lots of tops and for some only XXS fitted me... I am petite and slim, but not a scrawny midget! About 5'3 tall and 50kg.

I have also noticed that Whistles have recently introduced size 4 and 6.... Size 8 there used to be fine but now I have to size down...

Chachah i see your point but if there was more consistency, shopping would be so much easier. You are right about things also being related to body shape and I know it makes a difference but it shouldn't lead to such huge differences. A size either way is nothing really but when you can be a 12 in one thing and a 20 in another, surely somethings wrong?

It must vary between shops, m&s having gone with vanity sizing more than top shop or new look. At 21 I was 10st10 and a size 12-14. Now at 36 I'm 8st 10 and an 8-10. I'd say that was pretty consistent. I'm shopping in the same places (my budget as the mother of 2 and not working being much the same as when I was a student).

UK brands tend to reflect the average size of the population, so White Stuff, M&S etc will be bigger than Zara and Mango which is more European in sizing.

Some designer brands size for markets in Japan and they are tiny.

Yes sizes have got bigger, because women have got bigger.

This may/may not be a good thing. To a certain extent central heating, cars and food being a smaller percentage of household budgets is going to lead to average, perfectly healthy people being slightly larger and taller.

If mainstream stores want to stock sizes 10-16 what these mean, over time, is going to change.

The problem is that this has left a gap in the sizes for genuinely slim women and still developing teens.

The correct solution would be to sell more age 12-14 teen clothes and start adults ranges with well cut size 8, but shops don't. They sell an utter mish mash of overlapping teen and 4-8 adult stuff, where different shops interpretation of the sizes varies wildly.

It's not just that clothes have become larger, they have changed shape too! I still wear an ancient old denim skirt from the 1980s size 10, fits well on waist & hips.

I have tried & failed to buy a new short denim skirt for the last few years - I need a size 6/8 for my hips now (not me, it's the clothes) but the waists are vast & flapping round my slim but not tiny middle. I'm bigger round the waist since pregnancy too, so it's not as bad as it could have been

I am 5'10 and weigh 10st9lb. 15 years ago at the age of 21 I was a size 12. I've since had 2 kids, still weigh much the same but am apparently now a 10. I recently had to buy a suit jacket in an 8. fecking ridiculous I mean what do small people wear? I am slim but hardly tiny under any starch of v the imagination.

I Just don't get this. I'm a size 10-12 in pretty much all shops: Top Shop, Zara, Whistles, Cos, Reiss, Tes Baker, Karen Millen et al.

I don't shop for clothes in places like Fat Face, White Stuff, M&S so can't comment on them. The not place I have to size down is River Island.

morriszap it would be lovely to be able to buy size 6 clothing that fit but due to vanity sizing the size 6's are two sizes too big for some of us. Leaving me with very few places to shop I refuse to go to tammy girl

The size six clothes I see are tiny. Literally, I can't understand how an adults pelvis and vital organs could fit in a waist I could span with one hand.

Which shops are selling big baggy size 6 clothes?

I dunno Karen millen is small unless things have changed. I have a dress that is a 12 which is far too tight I can just get into in my wardrobe. tbf though its probably 8 years old so the sizes may have changed

I have been between 7 1/2 and 8 1/2 stone my whole adult life and my figure has always been what you would describe as 'athletic' ie straight up and down although my boobs have grown a bit in recent years. I'm 5'6". 12-14 years ago I was a 10. I am now a 6, barely. Which is all well and good but I simply can't get stuff small enough in many high street shops and supermarkets. M&S, Gap and Next do not make clothes that fit me. And it's all the bloody expensive shops which do still make clothes for women of my supposedly unusual size. Grr.

And yes, thank goodness for Mango!

I'm at the top end of a healthy weight for my height, BMI is 24. I wear a 12 most places, but vintage size 16s.

I hear a lot of '16 is an average size' but it always was the biggest size in mainstream shops...which would make sense if at the top end of healthy weight I was a 16.

I do wonder though, how the difference between body shapes impacts on sizing. I'm very straight up and down, my sister is an hourglass. We wear the same clothes size. She is the same height as me but a stone heavier....

"M&S, Gap and Next do not make clothes that fit me."

Gap size 6 jeans are tiny. DD started wearing them at age 12 and she is skinny. I can't believe that Gap have increased their sizes in the last couple of years.

I have no idea if vanity sizing exists in the minds of the shops but I think it is more down to cut than anything.

I have a shirt that I still wear occasionally which I had at university in the mid 80's. It is white cotton and worn very well. It is a size 14 and I am now a size 18/20. That certainly isn't vanity sizing of new clothes! The thing about it is that there is a lot more room in the shoulders and bust than modern stuff and that works for me as I still have a waist despite putting on weight.

I read something a year or two ago about how shops have adjusted their clothes sizes to reflect the fact that people are getting bigger around the middle - there are more apples. That is fine and dandy is you are an apple or straight up and down with high hip to waist ratio (I think I mean high ratio - whatever it is if the hips and waist measurements are close in size). Not so great for those of us who are pears or hour glass who still have relatively small waists and larger hips. Nothing fits these days - it is baggy where it shouldn't be (waist) and tight else where. That doesn't strike me as vanity sizing.

It's both - vanity sizing is a real phenomenon, but you're right that shape proportions & cutting has changed too. I'm a classic hourglass and even before I lost weight (2 stone and counting - nearly there!), still had a very defined waist relative to my hips/shoulders/overbust, so I feel your pain about trying to dress that shape.

A few years ago Karen Millen announced they were going to start doing size 16. My sis was very happy.
Until she bought a size 16 top and measured it against the size 14s in her wardrobe.
Yes, same size.
They hadn't expanded their brand, they'd simply changed the labels.

I'm old enough and stingy enough that I still have some 1980s clothes in my wardrobe, hence I know that I'm a 1980s size 14. In my mind I'm a true size 12, which seems about right, because I've got a BMI of 23 and am not unusually tall/short/muscular.

Just went to M&S sale, and bought a size 8 dress ( close fitting, no Lycra). Where on earth do little old ladies buy clothes now? Surely they can't all be in Mango and Karen Millen?

I recently bought a suit for an interview from next. Size 8 jacket and 10 trousers. My usual go to size which I thought would be ok to buy online

The trousers were falling off me and the jacket looked like I'd borrowed it from DP.

I'm small (5ft2, 50kg) but I don't think I'm a size 6 or a 4. I wish I had known this as I had to rush order something else for my interview which fits, thankfully.

Enormouse Next sizes are barmy. Bought jeans there at weekend, size 10 and after one wear they are hanging off me. Measured the waist and they are 32 inches! That's a size 14. And I have a big waist and they are still loose. I am a size 12 in skinny jeans in most shops.

It's ridiculous. I'm 5'0 and 9st 10. I have a big bum am chunky thighs, yet I am a size 10.

The last time I was a size 10 was when I was 18, and weighed 8st.

I would say that I'm a 14 really. Obviously getting into a size 10 is good for the ego, but it must really affect thinner people, as its harder to buy smaller clothes.

This is an interesting article- apparently, there used to be standards in sizing during WW2, as it was necessary for uniforms etc (maybe it still applies in dressmaking patterns? I'm not sure...), but it was all deregulated by the 1980s, when stores and designers started making it up as they went along, because they wanted the repeat custom of their target consumers, and people feel better if they think they are smaller than they are.

Arguably, it has all become counter-productive because the uncertainty it has created means that shoppers have to spend more time trying on, and they end up buying less stuff as a result.