Vanity sizing re-visited...

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I know this has been discussed before, but I think it's getting worse...

I was just thinking after a recent shopping trip to j crew in London. I have not shopped there much but have a top from there, purchased about 5 years ago. It's a size small. But when I went there recently I tried on lots of tops and for some only XXS fitted me... I am petite and slim, but not a scrawny midget! About 5'3 tall and 50kg.

I have also noticed that Whistles have recently introduced size 4 and 6.... Size 8 there used to be fine but now I have to size down...

Thank heavens for vanity sizing otherwise I wouldn't be accommodated by the high street and would be stuck in the "niche" stores. I love that on one occasion I fit onto a Reiss 14 though back then I was more of a 16-18, the coat is beautiful quality.

The thing is, I'd like to buy investment pieces of clothing in decent fabrics that might last a while. But Instead I often end up having to buy cheaper clothes (New Look, Top Shop etc) just to find sizes that fit. Its nt just the lack if choice, I'm not being permitted to shop in a more sustainable way.

That is interesting, Frilly. So sizes are weighted to a 12, rather like how exam grades used to be weighted to the mean?

Ooh: Frilly, are shoe sizes similarly weighted to the average? I was always a 6 until about 5 years ago, and now I always have to buy a 7. Lots of my friends have found the same.

I have been a 6 all my adult life, and still am, except for Sketchers which are sized larger.

Very interesting frilly

So I'm average? Go me!!!!

I am 5' 10" with a 28" waist and had to buy a size 6 in Next last week. It's ridiculous! I weigh more now than I did when I was at school, yet I was a size 12 back then and it was a snug fit, too, but I was slimmer as I used to dance, run, skate, bike ride etc.

For those who are saying 'what's the problem', it IS a problem because if I am considered a size 6 at my height and size, then there is something VERY wrong. Also, it hides the fact that people are actually gaining weight as they think that they are continuing to wear the same size, yet that size is, in reality, now 4 inches bigger round the waist than it used to be! My Mum's wedding dress from the 70's was a size 14 and I cannot get it on!

frilly that's very interesting and makes sense.

I do agree with some posters here that vanity sizing hides obesity. I barely noticed I had become obese because I was still fitting into clothes at many of my usual shops (only high street though; not designer).

Now I've dropped to BMI 19 I can emphasise with slimmer posters who now find smaller sizes too big. Many stores still don't stock much below size 8 or jeans size 24 (they may produce then but not much on the rails) which makes that store inaccessible to me.

What I really don't understand is how this can work for companies from a commercial perspective.

It works because they want to cover as much of their customer base as possible with as few sizes as possible because having more variation costs more money. Remember when it was hard to get clothes above a size 16? That's because there weren't enough people of that size for shops to want to produce their whole range in another size. Therefore, as people get bigger, it makes sense for a shop to shift their (e.g 6) sizes upwards to match the customer base and just forget about the (say 3%) of people who are now too slim for any of their clothes. I reckon it wont be long before there will have to be speciaist shops for slim-jims.

I was v surprised to see my local Evans is closing.

Is that because their customers are now served by mainstream stores?

The 12 being the avg makes sense. Because I know avg used to be more of an hourglass then it is now. So I think the waist has been increasing for ever, even if bust and hips weren't.

I remember my grandmother commenting on this 30 years ago.

I have the same problem as MorrisZap and yet I can often buy a size 12 in places like M&S.

It would be easier if there was a standardisation across all brands, represented in centimetres, but even then it would be tricky with things like dresses. Most dresses that fit my bust or my bum are massive round the waist and hang off my shoulders. I find clothes shopping incredibly demoralising and frustrating. I must try on 50 things for every one thing I buy, and even then it's often a compromise.

Oh come off it. People are truly naffed off because they have to buy a size 6? Trust me, us bigger sized women don't mind being a ten, a twelve or a fourteen.

At no time in history has it been possible to pick clothes without trying them on, it's always been pretty random, even in the same shop.

And to cheer up the teeny tinies, Fat Face have reversedtheir vanity sizing. I used to wear a twelve in there despite being a fourteen everywhere else.

Now I'm a fourteen there too.

I look at size six clothes and my mind boggles that an adult could fit into them.

Me too Morris.

I am a size 12 in dressmaking sizes. I have a dress from Reiss in an 8 and there is plenty of growing room! I have also gone down half a size in Clark's.

Frilly, I heard that theory, but it went a bit further than that.

Shops work to the size 12 average, but it's their customer base's average.

So - the average Zara shopper is young, fashion-conscious, Spanish(!) and fairly slim. The average M&S shopper is more towards the middle-aged, and stouter of girth.

So yes, size 12 is the average in each high street shop, but each shop's 'average' is different from the next.

And I agree with Morris about it being unrealistic to expect to buy clothes literally off the rack. I can't imagine ever being able to buy something even vaguely flattering and well-fitted on me without first having to try it on. Not now, and not 10 or 20 years ago. And I'm tall and slim with modest boobs, so supposedly an easy shape to dress.

I also remember being 7st7lb (I'm 5ft5) back in the day. I could only just squeeze into a 10 in the early to mid-90s. Now I am more like 9st.

I am between a 10 and a 12. More likely a 10 on my top half and a 12 on my bottom half. I am thick around the middle and also have thighs and a bottom.

I bought a size 8 coat in M&S yesterday which fitted very well.
My White Stuff skirts are a size 8 usually, sometimes a 10.
All of my Boden dresses and trousers and tops are a size 10.
I bought a size 12 dress in Oasis last week.
I tried on a size 14 cardi in Zara last week and couldn't do it up.

None of my old size 10 stuff (M&S, Principles, Wallis etc) goes anywhere near me.

I used to be a size 12, now I'm a size 8 (depending on style, shop etc)

I also have trouble fitting my Porsche on the drive and my diamond shoes hurt my feet.

I have lost 2 and a half stone recently (2 more to go... sigh) and have no idea anymore what size to buy, got all excited at buying a 16 then went somewhere else and had to get a 20 I would love to order online but have no idea what size to buy.

well this thread makes me feel like crap, I was all happy about having stayed a size 10 for the past ten years or so (never weigh myself), but apparently I've actually ballooned to a size 14?

I own clothes sized from 8 to 20; my modal sizes are 12, 14 and 16 with 14 predominating. In the old money I am definitely a 16 (I weigh the same as I did 40 years ago after losing and gaining many pounds in the meantime).

It always makes me smile when people who are similar to or larger than me are described in magazines as curvy size 12s. Size 12 was very slim.

i wear clothes( modern) size 10-16
with 12 & 14 being the norm ,its a pain online shopping .

I'm not bothered really about what number the label in my clothes has BUT I would like to see some consistency. It's exhausting going shopping because I have a lot of trouble trying things on due to physical disability. I can't go alone, I have to wait until my sister can come with me to help me. If there was more consistency, then I'd be able to buy either off the rack knowing my size or take fewer sizes into the changing rooms. I can't order online as I can't afford to buy multiple sizes all at once to send what doesn't fit back. I miss out on lots of things I'd like to buy simply because it's pot luck in terms of what size I'd be. If I'm a 20, that's fine but if that's my size then I would expect to be that size in all stores, not a 14 in one and a 12 in another and a 20 in yet another.

To be fair I think you'd still need to try most things on, even if sizes were consistent. It's not just about that standard size, it's also how you're shaped and how the clothes are cut. You may always need to go a size up or down depending on the specific outfit. Just like shoes may still be too wide or too narrow, even if you're a true size 5.

When I was last 8 stones 3, over 20 years ago, I was dress size 12; today at same weight I'm dress size 8. My body shape is exactly the same too.