So, who makes 'The Rules'?

[ToastedTeacakes]

Inspired by the never ending stream of 'mutton' and 'is this age appropriate' threads that keep popping up on here.

I understand, truly I do, how easy it is to succumb to this crap, how you're just ambling along dressing like you've always done and then BAM!!! you stumble unwittingly into a mutton thread and begin to doubt your entire wardrobe. It's effing insidious, so it would be nice to begin an anti-mutton thread, where we can challenge this muck-heap of ingrained self doubt and kick it to the other side of never.

I will turn 40 in a few weeks, and although my appearance/style has altered (slowly and naturally, I suppose) over time, I have no intention of outright banning anything from my wardrobe once the big 40 has come and gone. I doubt I'll be buying a pair of denim hotpants (never my thing anyway) but my legs are staying visible, my hair is gonna keep growing, and I will shop wherever the fuck I want.

Anyone with me?

Here are a few of those dubious rules that both puzzle and infuriate me:

1. Cut your hair (yes, was the fashionable thing to do when my grandmother turned 40).
2. Don't wear mini skirts.
3. You can't experiment with style, you are supposed to have already cracked it.
4. Choose between face and arse (oh fuck off do).
5. Don't wear it if you were wearing it first time around: so that pretty much excludes everything, including flares, skinnies, mini's, midi's, ankle boots, tall boots, peacoats, trench coats, and frigging knitted hats.
6. At your age you have to buy quality items which will assist you in looking less haggard (possibly the biggest pile of shite I have read so far). It is true that I personally prefer classic, higher quality, well cut clothing, but it ain't going to make me appear any goddamn younger. Just a tad wealthier, so let's be honest.
7. You can't frequent the likes of H&M or Topshop: OK. Try and stop me. I will reserve the right to pick and mix, whether it's Topshop, Great Plains or Isabel Marant.

There are many more 'rules' so please feel free to add and dissect them.

I think that the most crucial issue here is that these assumptions suggest that to be over a certain age renders one as somehow 'lesser' or wanting. Youth is a life stage, it isn't any more or less more beautiful or perfect than middle age. Who decides at what age I am supposed to feel less valued? Why should I pine for what has gone? I actually like myself now.

Not only this, but if you prefer to opt out and not give a shite you are then labelled mumsy or frumpy. Mindboggling.

This lady inspires me:

la-mariniere.tumblr.com/post/73176570094/linda-rodin-just-discovered-so-many-wonderful

I can't reply properly at the moment but I'm with you, Toasted. The mutton police make me very cross. Back later!

I agree with everything you've said except the refusal to accept "choose between face and arse". That bit is true. It's a bastard.

well my face and arse are fine for now, but will keep you posted it could be any day now....

loves 'mutton police'

Let's face it a lot of 'fashion' is about The Emperor's New Clothes' ie a lot of it is sh!t. I've never been a slave to fashion, I wear what suits ME and shop where the frig I like.

Oh, and I stopped buying the over priced glossy magazines that are just full of advertisements and regurgitated articles eons ago.

Agree with the face and arse bit. I look 30 and I'm over 40, I put this down to being 4 stone overweight

Here are a few of those dubious rules that both puzzle and infuriate me:

1. Cut your hair - My hair doesn't do short
2. Don't wear mini skirts - I haven't for 25 years, they aren't me
3. You can't experiment with style - DD2 gets embarrassed
4. Choose between face and arse - I know women who certainly should have chosen face, dieting to an 8/10 when you are a natural 14 is not always a good move.
5. Don't wear it if you were wearing it first time around: so that pretty much excludes everything, including flares, skinnies, mini's, midi's, ankle boots, tall boots, peacoats, trench coats, and frigging knitted hats. - I'd have to walk about stark naked.
6. At your age you have to buy quality items which will assist you in looking less haggard - I'm a SAHM I'd look bloody stupid in a Jigsaw suit in Tesco's
7. You can't frequent the likes of H&M or Topshop: - I have teen DDs so I can go in undercover

I feel much more confident about clothes in my 40s,partly through having had my colours done ( don't wear black any more) but also through an acceptance of what suits me and not bothering with things that don't. I'm quite big boobed so tbh a lot of fashion never suited me anyway. I love pretty jewellry and unusual shoes/ boots and feel quite comfortable with my style. I think we live in a unique age that actually older women can wear a wide variety if clothes including ones that would have been frowned in in the past.

Yay us!

The only fashion rule I live by are the 4 F's .... Fit, Fabric, Finish and don't give a F!!!

face and arse thing: is it a weight fluctuation thing (dieting?). My body doesnt seem to fluctuate so i am expecting my face and arse to both collapse simultaneously.

I think a lot of those 'Rules' are pretty dated tbh and haven't moved on with the generations. 40 is young these days, but that wouldn't necessarily have been the case 15 years ago...

The first time around rule in particular is vv dated - it's from a time where fashion took 25 years to revisit trends. Now things come back (usually with a twist but sometimes not) every 5 years.

I think we live in a unique age that actually older women can wear a wide variety if clothes including ones that would have been frowned in in the past.

Yes, I agree Scarlet.

What causes face collapse, I am absolutely convinced, is the sleep-deprivation that comes with having children. That can happen way way earlier than 40!

My mil is 80 this year and had a karen millen cardy on her yesterday. Looked fab on her. She is an avid shopper but never restricts herself to 'age appropriate' shops but never looks silly either. Its all a matter of knowing what makes you look and feel good. Likewise I always picked up bits and pieces from places that people might deem for older women when I was in my 20's. But I knew what suited me and how to make it work in my wardrobe.

My aunts still have fab legs at 70+ - I think the rules are dated, 40 is the new 27 and 65+ is the new 40

A lot of middle-aged women cut their hair very short but a softer, more-face framing cut would be much more flattering.

My mum is 74 and only just taking an interest in clothes: i think in response to the loss of my dad last year, sort of like 'finding herself' in this new, painful phase of life. And clothes have become this thing where she treats herself or finds pleasure.
When shopping in M&S with her last week she made the comment that leggings might be seen as 'mutton dressed as lamb' and i really wanted to shake her!
Leggings are like a blank canvas, it's how you wear them, surely! She obviously won't be styling them like a teen with cropped tops.

Perhaps different life stages require us to adapt, but such derogatory words as mutton serve no other purpose than to devalue and restrict.

She got the leggings and loves them!

So pleased to see this thread, I am sick of the harassing of older women on Mumsnet. I'm 57 and, for what it's worth, these are the 'rules' I follow but feel free to trash them!

1. The menopause is the game changer, not some random age. I'm not just talking about sometimes putting on weight, I mean that you may end up a completely different shape. That's why the 'You-should-know-what-suits-you-by-now' brigade are talking such utter shite. You have to experiment more than ever.
2. Sort out your underwear. At some point (although probably not at 40) it will have to start working harder.
3. Show off your best features and disguise the worst ones - the same as at any age.
4. Tell the mutton police that you are as entitled as they are to have fun, try new things and yes, sometimes get it wrong and that, if they don't like it, they can either look the other way or fuck the fuck off.
5. Never, ever use a magnifying mirror.

Great thread. I do get hacked off with 'the mutton police' on here, they talk such utter tripe. Surely half the fun of clothes is trying new stuff, new styles and experimenting with new looks. You're supposed to have fun with it all and make it work for you, not follow someone else,s dull rules. How dreary.

I'm 34 and 40 does not seem even vaguely 'old' to me. Can't understand all the pressure on here to cover up like some Victorian lady when you're out of your 30s

Haha, the magnifying mirror thing!
I remember coming across that on here somewhere last year, and promptly went to check on myself. I even checked it looking downwards which is supposed to make things much worse, but was surprised by feeling fine about myself. No difference. Hee.
So my ego did this little shimmy for a moment, before i thought:

"You pathetic tool, get out there and do something more interesting. It will come your turn honey, you aren't that special!"

I can see the changes already. Looser jawline, and i already had a sulky mouth shape so god help me in a few yrs.....but I do strongly believe that although there is a special glow of beauty to youth, there's also a special glow to maturity. It's all relative. It comes to us all, no matter how special, different or genetically blessed we are.

I wear what I want, when I want and where I want, life is too short to worry what others think!

I love the fact that we live in times of liberation and freedom to express ourselves. There are so many styles and fashions, some are ones I like, some not, for me how I 'present' myself is a personal thing.

Ok so some times a person walks past and they are wearing cloths that I wouldn't choose but hey it all makes for a colourful and interesting society.

Rule are made to be broken! Good girls don't make the history books.
Dress the way you feel comfortable and be happy.

My mum was 50 in 1971, and was a frumpy woman with permed hair, who had a shampoo and set every Friday. She wore a corselette, crimplene slacks and pinnies.

I am 53 and the complete opposite. I am lucky to be very tall and slim, good skin and suit a short funkyish haircut. I do struggle with clothes, as it isn't easy buying trousers when you're tall..I never wear dresses or skirts.
But I wear T Opshop jeans, buy from H amd M, Mint Velvet and Phase Eight.

Shoot me if I buy from SimplyBe .

Trying to be fair ... I do think there is a smidgeon of truth in certain 'rules' e.g.the cut your hair thing: if your face starts to sag then long hair can accentuate that, whereas a shorter cut can give the illusion of raised cheekbones. Likewise, quality fabrics tend to hang better and are less likely to cling - but then they will look better on all bodies, regardless of age. That's what annoys me, this lumping together of all older women, regardless of shape or size.

As for the 'cover-up-your-arms' or 'you-can't-go-to-Top-Shop' school of advice, that, in my opinion, is just egregious nastiness, designed to try and keep us in our place.

I have never been to Boden sites (though they keep sending me emails ) LKBennett, White Company , Mango, TKMaxx (are they really bargains? Is that blouse really an RRP of £87 ? )

But places like Top Shop, H&M , Dorothy Perkins aren't me though DD loves them.

Primark - I'll buy tops but not jumpers (they go saggy) trousers (don't flatter) underwear (just no )

M&S might be a bit meh but I'm a pretty standard M&S size.
And QVC ( I buy a fair bit especially coats).

I've noticed my face is changing, softening.
Hair is a collar length bob, so fairly age-less.

At work I wear a white tunic and black trousers so no thought process involved. At home, I'm really trying to wear all my clothes not keeping for good.
Because that 'best' occasion ? Never happens .

I'm 37 and honestly feel and look better now than I ever have. In my teens I didn't have a clue and I spent my 20s having kids and feeling shattered. I can assure you my face and arse are both great lol.

I make the rules for me. I now know what I like and what works for me. I shop Topshop and Boden.

I'm 44 and I really ENJOY clothes. If I have a rule, it's that, really - I have to like what I wear and feel good in it, a bit glam, sometimes a bit sexy on a good day. I couldn't give a fig for these old rules and yes I've heard the short hair one a million times.

My favourite ladies to spot are usually 60+ and look amazing, not young just stylish. Sometimes they are just very wealthy looking, sometimes much more cool and trendy looking. They always look happy and content and like the type of lady you could have a good gossip and a giggle with. They all look like they'd give short shrift to anyone telling them how to dress! I want to look like that in 20 years time...