Do you ever consider the "real cost" of fast fashion?

[ujjayi]

I love a bargain but have recently started wondering about the practices in the entire process of garment production which allow us to buy into fast fashion.

I been reading Naked Fashion by Safia Minney (founder of People Tree) and I really don't know if I can ever buy cheap clothes, or even certain not so cheap brands, again. Lots of brands claim to have a clear conscience but often they are only making that statement based on the "making up" factory experience and not the entire supply chain - dyeing and weaving for example.

How much consideration do you give to the ethical status of the brands you buy?

The thing is that if you are on a limited budget there really isn't much choice, certainly not where I am anyway.

Charity shops in my local town charge £1.50-£2 for a child t-shirt, even if it is is very poor condition. At Matalan I can get a pack of 3 t-shirts for £5, a school sweatshirt for £3 I think, a pack of two short sleeve school blouses is only £3.

No idea whether it is ethical or not but I can't get decent clothes for the same price anywhere else.

Ebay is ok, but if you have limited funds and spend them on a childs coat say, it arrives and it doesn't fit, then your money is gone (at least until you can sell it on for hopefully the same/more) and you still don't have a coat. If you are very limited money wise ebay can just be too risky.

I am shocked at charity shops charging so much. Much cheaper ime.

2nd hand isn't necessarily cheaper.5vests £2 primark cheaper than eBay or oxfam

I was too, I'm in a fairly poor, working class town in Yorkshire. An old mill town, the high street full of pound/99p stores, but the charity shops are just so expensive.

Are car boots expensive near you Spinnng? Last one I went to was 20p an item on kids stuff!

yes I think the charity shops can be too expensive and would sell more if slightly cheaper particularly Barnados.

Difficult about ethical choices but agree to some extent with Scottish Mummy. Perhaps if we all bought less and wore it for longer. With kids they grow so slightly different.

Yes, I do car boots, love them. They are great for spotting things but you can't really go with a list like
DD - vests, socks, a rain mac and a sweatshirt
DS - jeans, vests, long sleeve tops and wellies

Because when you get there the chances of finding what you actually want are slim. They are great for seeing things, say a pair of wellies for 50p that are the next size up for DS, getting them and putting them away for later though.

Quite a few baby sales, similar to the NCT sales, around too but they only seem to go up to about 2 years and after that the clothes are fewer to choose from and usually is well worn condition.

To be fair, we used to be skint, we aren't now though I still shop like we are because it has become a habit and I like to save every penny we can to help us through the next time we end up skint. I remember how it was though and it was tough, fast fashion or not, if it makes the most value-for-money sense that is where you spend your money, whether you like it or not.

Out of interest I had a look at People Tree, some of it is awful!

For anyone who is interested in the themes of this thread I recommend the book 'Overdressed' - it was a huge eye-opener for me.

Although I really admire the people on this thread who have gone all the way, I also believe in baby steps and gradual change.

Spinninghamsterwheel is it by any chance Morley? The charity shops there have truly lost the plot on the true value of their donations vs supermarkets. I've seen tatty Tu items at the same cost as they were new. I fear that the perceived stigma of charity shops amongst many people has lead them to believe that they are only going to sell to middle class do gooders and should price accordingly.

Simple in my home town charity shops started getting so much unsalable clothes donations that their waste disposal fees skyrocketed and some of them went out of business.

I've started buying basics like jeans and plain tops with a view to use accessories to jazz them up. As I reached my 30s I've really struggled with clothes now I know what does and doesn't suit me. So I avoid high fashion most of the time.

Scottishmummy, no-one is talking about trying to restrict choice - I think what a lot of people are saying is actually that they would like to see more choice - trendier ethical clothes. American Apparel demonstrate that it can be done, and they are in a similar price range to Warehouse or Oasis, which I am aware is not dirt cheap, but it is also in reach of lots of people.

I grew up wearing plenty of hand-me downs and yes DIY haircuts too,, and I didn't feel a stigma about it because my Mum just didn't talk about it in a negative way - and she grew up somewhere really very poor by today's standards. It wasn't till I was a teenager that I became aware of fashion - but really young kids are aware of what is and isn't cool, and I think that's really sad.

Agree that charity shops and "clothing agencies" price their stuff in a very strange way, often charging more than you suspect the original ticket price.

The dress in Sainbury's and People Tree may look the same but the price difference is explained by everyone in the supply chain being paid & treated fairly. IMO that is something worth buying in to.

The facts are that we own far too much stuff and a lot of it is sub-standard in terms of quality. It is difficult and expensive to kit children out with ethical clothes but perhaps we could make a change and offset with our own wardrobes? How much of what we own do we actually wear? Making an ethical decision isn't just about choosing between fair trade v sweatshop. It's about quantity too.

Being an ethical-only shopper in this market is impossible. Even if the clothes are ethical, who made the machinery, needles etc etc? Very few high street brands sell entirely "clean" ranges. But some do offer a fair trade option within their ranges so why not buy it?

As ScottishMummy says, it is about exercising your right of choice as a consumer. This board has had several threads bemoaning the decline in quality on the high street so why are we still buying in to it? Habit? Misplaced sense of "need"?

very true ujjayi and the internet makes it worse as there are always 'bargains' and tempations. I also like buying things for the house.

also I don't tend to buy in primark because of the quality but do you think some of the more expensive shops are any more moral in their production methods e.g. M&S but the mark up is more?

I don't think I wear some of my things but tbh we have had a really cold winter so i have tended to wear warm skirts boots and trousers and my shorter skirts have not been brought out (plus i haven't waxed my legs since new year :) extra insulation)

I think, because it's impossible to know what really goes on 'behind the scenes', the best way is to buy less in general. It's something I'm trying to do but it's hard when you love clothes! I've definitely cut down though and give much more thought to whether I really love something before I buy it. Being on a budget like most people does mean I sometimes buy from Primark or the supermarket (especially kids' clothes) which in an ideal world I wouldn't but I try to balance this with a few better quality items and buying second hand.

I'm in Spain (Catalonia) and they don't 'do' second hand. Anywhere. E-bay is a fairly new thing and the stuff is high-street prices for high-street stuff. So I must buy cheap and I don't like it.

I have, however, just thrown out a blue top I bought from Miss Selfridge in 1995!

I'd love a place where I can buy decent, interesting 2nd hand pieces and modify. I love this site by a girl called Marisa:

www.newdressaday.com

She was heading for 30, just lost a job, bought one dress every day for a dollar (Goodwill) and adapted it simply into something else. I'm aware not everyone can sew, but she does just basic stuff.

I'd buy ethical if I had the money - but to pay 45quid on a minging top from people tree? I'd rather wear leaves!!

Just looked at the people tree link - clicked on a dress I thought was pretty. Doesn't go up to my size and as is made in India (ha!) I don't believe a fucking word of their ethical shite - and how did it arrive in Europe? Unicorn dust highway?

I want to buy made in UK from decent fabric.

Dolomites, if you go to the People Tree blog you can see videos and read interviews with the people who made the garments. But if you want ot be sure I guess you have to travel all the way to India and talk to them for real which is almost impossible. Agree that more clothing should be made in the UK.

The whole ethical question is a nightmare.

I work for a clothing company who have sustainability and fair trade policies as do a lot of the main retailers. They don't really push it as a huge marketing campaign as it doesn't sit well with other parts of the company.

What surprises most people is the stores they think are fair trade, because of the brand profile are actually not.

When I last did a factory visit in India it was very difficult to "suss" any Dodgy suppliers out. They outsource to villages and make it impossible to track. But one long term supplier gave me some very different points of view. We would all love children to be children, but in India for example, if the entire family is dependent on the 15 year olds income and that is suddenly cut off then it can be very difficult to survive. If everyone stopped buying clothing it would also have an effect on their earning power.

This guy had set up many facilities and better conditions for his staff, crèches, time for schooling, stricter hours, clean well lit conditions and was trying to improve from the inside out. It's very difficult without the support of the government though.

Wally fascinating. And agree. Lived for several years in a 3rd world country and often it was difficult to find good solutions - starving was a realistic option there too and working teens were often able to lift entire families out of poverty. But then that normally meant dropping out of school.

Have recommended this book elsewhere but 'Factory Girls' by Leslie T Chang is also an excellent read (about girls who assemble many of our everyday goods in China).

I would like to be able to buy ethically produced clothing that is suitable for me to wear to work but I can't find any.
I normally wear my clothes until they are worn out - but for work wear this means once they look scruffy they have to go. For casual wear I am happy to mend and re-mend, and for children's wear I love buying second hand from car boots etc
I like Project 33 as an idea for work wear - it makes me really think about what I buy and how it will work with my other clothes.
My other problem is that I keep changing size/weight and therefore need more clothes to cope with this. So for me, staying a stable weight would make me more eco friendly.

I find the toy industry far more shocking than the clothing industry in terms of exploitation - exploiting children the other side of the world for our own children's fun just seems very wrong to me.

I think the worst thing about 'fashion' is that it is so disposable. I do not believe in wearing things for a 'season' or that are in fashion in a particular year. I buy clothes when those I have wear out. I rarely give to charity shops because I normally wear my clothes until they are unwearable by anybody and can only go into the textile bank for rag. I wear styles that suit my shape and HATE that 'fashion' sometimes makes the 'right' shapes for me impossible to find.

I would like to spend more time/effort buying ethical when I do buy but it's quite a rare occurance for me anyway so I don't put the effort in to really look into what i'm buying but I do like natural fibres such as bamboo and merino and I am worried about the environmental issues associated with cotton pesticides as well as human rights issues in production.

I do think about it a lot. I try to buy mainly fair trade clothing, or if not, buy from eBay. Charity shops are too dear and often crappy anyway. However, I am by no means sorted with this. I still trot off to Asda etc for school uniform. I've searched high and low for fairtrade school uniform but there's hardly any out there, and what there is is unsuitable/rubbish/far too expensive. It's not easy. I don't like it but it's a needs must thing.

The other thing with fairtrade clothing I have found is that they are not always the greatest quality, esp for the price. I do buy a fair amount of Nomads stuff, only in the sale or on ebay, but it's not always lasted. I can also see there's next to nothing suitable for workwear on sites like that. I like the slightly hippy/boho/floaty dress and leggings look so I'm happy with it but I can see it's a niche thing.

Also, children's fairtrade stuff is fairly rubbish. And only goes up to age 7 or so - with nothing for older children - honestly, on every website selling fairtrade clothing, I cannot find one that sells clothing for eg 12 yr old girl.

Maybe there's a good gap in the market here, for good quality ethically sourced clothing, wider ranging styles and for all age groups.