Do you ever consider the "real cost" of fast fashion?

[ujjayi]

I love a bargain but have recently started wondering about the practices in the entire process of garment production which allow us to buy into fast fashion.

I been reading Naked Fashion by Safia Minney (founder of People Tree) and I really don't know if I can ever buy cheap clothes, or even certain not so cheap brands, again. Lots of brands claim to have a clear conscience but often they are only making that statement based on the "making up" factory experience and not the entire supply chain - dyeing and weaving for example.

How much consideration do you give to the ethical status of the brands you buy?

[QueenofWhatever]

An interesting thread and thanks for starting it OP. I think the most ethical thing is just to buy less. I accept wally's point that there are now whole families in developing countries dependent on us buying shed loads but that shows how skewed the whole system is.

I've been doing Project 333 for about four months now and it has really helped focus my mind on this. For the first time in many, many years I am now wearing 90% of my clothes on a regular basis. I wasn't someone who had a crammed to bursting wardrobe in the first place but virtually all of us have far more clothes than they need.

We need to start by having and buying less. The next step is buying second hand - a second hand Gap top is more ethical and environmentally friendly than buying a brand new People Tree dress. I also don't get this criticism of charity shop prices - they are there to raise funds for the charity, not to compete with Primark.

Also companies like People Tree are niche boutique labels. They are always going to be more expensive than high street shops as that's their business model. But I agree with people who have no faith that M&S or Monsoon are more ethical than Primark or Asda yet are way more expensive.

[alemci]

I think the trouble with the charity shops is that if they charge too much which I think they do for some things, then people will go to Primark and buy new something that is more up to date. I think it would be better if they charged slightly less and they may sell more.

I do appreciate the charity shops need to raise funds and I try to support them.

I sell on ebay and my things go for a bit less than in a charity shop yet I think my customers get much more of a bargain.

[scottishmummy]

charity shops set price to maximize funds, fair enough but the price can exceed high st new
It often cheaper to buy in primark etc than it is buy charity shop.
leaving individual to chose new or charity,and I don't think it's wrong to chose new

[ToastedTeacakes]

This has been on my mind for many years.
I follow tons of blogs which discuss this topic, but feel a little bit confused as to why so many people think that avoiding fast fashion has to mean shopping with high end designers.
I kept attempting to start discussions about a healthy/affordable middle ground but nobody seemed to want to look into it. It's like a lot of people use the fast fashion sweatshop excuse to head on over to NAP.

But ARE the higher end designers sourcing ethically? I have a friend who adores APC clothing, but she simply shrugs when I ask her how/where the stuff is sourced.

It's a cultural thing now though, isn't it? The consumer balks at higher prices (But i can get it so much cheaper at Primark!) yet expects the company to pay workers a decent wage and source materials ethically. We're kinda stuck. We have been primed for so long now to expect cut price goods. So yeh, it's political too.

I have found a few mid range companies, but often they're not known for their cool factor, which younger people especially are so driven towards. I also agree that many higher end stores are taking the piss with their prices. They KNOW there's a market (like me) who wishes to escape the high street for better quality and fairer practices - and they're (rather unethically) milking it.

[scottishmummy]

You're making some broad generalisatuons,I don't expect ethical sourcing
I'm realistic about how most retail goods are made.doesn't inhibit my purchase choices
if it doesn't say ethical blah blah on label it wont be.I don't seek ethical out as choice

[QueenofWhatever]

Scottishmummy, it might be cheaper at Primark etc. than mid-range or more ethiclal at a charity shop or eBay, but it doesn't last . That's confusing price and value.

[scottishmummy]

I buy primark kids clothes wash well,last well.not unhappy with quality at all
I'm not in the least confused about my purchases
And if something wears out ill buy more

[Bramshott]

That list downthread was really interesting - supermarket clothing scored REALLY badly, but New Look for example, scored really well. And Topshop, H & M and M & Co scored above M & S and John Lewis.

[FrugalFashionista]

H&M are trying to do something - they have the in-store recycling initiative and also their 'Conscious Collection' made of recycled polyester (some of the tropical pieces in it are just lovely). Window dressing? Can be, but I prefer them to companies that do not care at all. Plus I want mainstream big players to get involved - they have the big buying power, and they can really make a difference if they want to.

[ToastedTeacakes]

somebody doth protest too much, like 5 pages worth.

[scottishmummy]

As with any product if I like,I'll buy.not like won't buy.That's only factors in my choice
H &mod d.o some nice pieces,will take look

[scottishmummy]

Who are you addressing teacakes?is it a veiled dig at op
Point of threads is garner opinion,and divergent opinions majestic it interesting
As consumers we can chose where,how we spend.and use that as a lever

[ToastedTeacakes]

Scottishmummy, I thought you sounded a bit angry. Thing is though, I do get your point, and agree that ethical choices are much easier to make if one has a higher income (I do not, sadly). If the supermarket stuff works well for you/your family I can see why you'd opt for that - it makes sense. I guess the point of the post is about becoming aware of what we are buying into and if there are other options available. Sadly I don't think that there are very many affordable alternatives and people's minds aren't going to change because we all love a bargain (and why shouldn't we!?).
If any change is to be made it will have to be made culturally. Single individuals being able to spend £60 on an organic tee isn't gonna make much difference when the more ethical stuff is only available to those with pots of cash.

Of course, we can still conserve and buy quality items if we a poor, if we wish to own less...but I can't see how this is immediately possible for a family of, say, 5.

I own a moderate amount of designer/high end stuff mixed with high street, and I would say that 8 times out of 10 the designer stuff (whilst better finished) does not suit me any better than the cheaper stuff. I also own 2 pairs of designer jeans, and whilst they are awesome quality I prefer my cropped skinnies from Next.

It's all so bloody confusing!

[ToastedTeacakes]

Also, whilst I am not a huge fan of high street stuff, I must say a few things in its defense.
Most of the more ethical stores don't have actual...stores. Or they are not appearing on the regular high street outside of city centers. Buying online is a pain in the rear for the best part, and I've found that a lot of the higher end stuff is just as badly fitting as the cheaper stuff. So, shopping the high street makes complete sense for those who are budget conscious, pushed for time and simply want to clothe a family with kids who are still growing. Who wants to pay an arm and a leg to clothe a 3 yr old?

So i get it, completely. Higher end stores are frequently overpriced and the blogging sphere which surrounds them can often seem a bit more concerned about prestige (and flashing an image) than actual ethics. There is a lot of hypocrisy out there. I know one lady who quit shopping at Office for shoes under the presumption that a pair of £400 boots with a designer label attached were inherently 'more ethical'. I say bollocks to that.

Still, I prefer to seek a middle ground, but only because I can.
Many simply can't.

[scottishmummy]

You thought I'm angry so you do wee dig about doth protest?how odd
angry does that mean we disagree?well that's point of a thread range of opinion
This is essential how individual choses to spend their money and choices we support

[FrugalFashionista]

Scottishmum as a consumer, I tend to choose 2nd hand charity shop over new from supermarket, mostly because I can find good fibers and really stylish clothes in charity shops and at the recycling center. I've done my share of supermarket shopping when my income was extremely limited, but I never really liked those clothes. As consumers, I think we have divergent sets of buying criteria - it's not a one size fits all process.

My friend mentioned another recommended source of ethically produced clothes - Eileen Fisher. Very pricey but according to her they last for ever and are timeless.

[scottishmummy]

As I said as consumer one choses where,how one spends ones money,part of capitalism
Exerting preferences through spending.choosing a retailer based on own prefernce
Op clearly has preference for ethical retail,asked if others do too?not my primary reason to purchase

[scottishmummy]

IMO,the fisher clothes are ghastly bit shapeless and Unappealing
do look Like would be worn by wealthy worthy Verrucas and lady mustache types
but hey ho,clearly they do sell

[ToastedTeacakes]

Scottishmummy, i was saying that i understood your point and wondered why it needed to be repeated so much, unless someone was challenging it, then it would make sense.

Just calling something capitalism does not mean that we should automatically relinquish responsibility or awareness.

And yes, you do seem very angry and defensive. If your own children aren't sweating over a machine 12 hours a day to make the clothes, you've nothing to stress about, right?

[scottishmummy]

You seem to want to read posts that reaffirm your pov,but dismiss mine as angry?
Why is it so intolerable for you?I haven't counted use of word ethical,but it's popped up
I wouldnt ask anyone to refrain from a pov or word because they already said it. But you ask this of me?

[scottishmummy]

Infact it's you teacakes who is v vexed,and resorting to namecalling
Clearly your pov matters to you,just as mine matters to me
And as consumers we can both chose where,and from whom we buy our clothes

[ToastedTeacakes]

Oddly, i had initially agreed with you and understood your viewpoint, but was curious as to why you keep defending it. Nobody attacked it, and i certainly did not dismiss you in any way. I said you seemed angry, i of course could be wrong.

There is no name-calling. But i do apologize for that last sweatshop comment, i was feeling a bit naughty:)

Look, if i sense you might be angry, this in no way means i disagree with you. Does that make sense? I simply wanted to know 'why'.

[ToastedTeacakes]

There's a fair bit of snobbery surrounding issues of ethical clothing, so wondered if this was the reason why? If so, i can see why it would irritate.

[scottishmummy]

Ok,so let's see.you've posted I doth protest too much,I'm angry,defensive,and going on
Presumably you on other hand have been measured,objective and polite to me?
I do wonder why you're so snippy about this.

[ujjayi]

Thanks to everyone who has posted links. It does seem that there is a massive gap in the market for an affordable, sustainable & sweatshop free high street range. The pricing issue makes it appear an elitist privilege rather than a consumer right for all and I fully take that on board.

Part of the issue I guess is that raw materials are so expensive. Organic cotton is around £12-15 a metre at retail price. Obviously large scale wholesale would be more competitively priced but then labour costs, export/import charges etc. soon start piling up and you can see why a fair price for the maker becomes a less than competitive price for us as consumers.

Also it seems to me that there isn't a "one size fits all" ethical store - People Tree may use women's cooperatives and social enterprises in India to produce garments but what about the carbon footprint of getting the stuff here to the UK? Do they also use fair trade needles, threads, fastenings, machines etc?

Also I would love to see more British made clothing. Am I mistaken in thinking the UK used to have a sizeable textiles industry?

For those of you like ScottishMummy who are unimpressed with the ethical ranges.....what styles/brands would you buy into if they had ethical ranges? I do think there is an image associated with fair trade and it isn't always very flattering!!