Pubs' policy on vaping

[Destinysdaughter]

I'm a bit disappointed that vaping was initially allowed everywhere but I'm finding that most pubs still don't allow it so you're still stuck outside with the rest of the smokers. It sucks especially when it's cold! Guess either customers have complained about it or pubs are playing safe. It's so bloody annoying as the arguments as to why you couldn't smoke in a workplace don't apply to vaping, ie it's not harmful to others. Kind of makes me feel you might as well go outside and have a fag! (Tho I tend to go to the loo ad have a crafty vape as it leaves no trace..)

Just wanted to rant really as their is no solution to this and I guess pubs can do what they want. Does annoy me tho.

There are dozens of science papers for and against so I can't really comment on the safety aspect. I have several friends who vape. They vape more than they ever smoked. I haven't said anything to them but I really dislike it. It stinks. There's a fug left in the room after an evenings vaping. I recently stayed in a hotel room with two friends who vaped a lot and woke every day with a tight chest. Again, I said nothing as didn't want to be a party pooper.

I am an ex smoker I smoked heavily for 10years and gave up because it was the right thing to do for my health and the health of those around me. I completely get that it's hard to give up (and I gave up before baking was around) but that's not the same as not questioning the safety of the alternatives and it's certainly not the same as subjecting those alternatives on others. I have no problem with vaping but do not like it in pubs, clubs and other public enclosed spaces.

There are many conflicting studies around for sure but when the likes of Cancer Research UK and ASH as well as the Royal College of Physicians see no reason on health grounds to ban indoor vaping it comes down to sensibilities. Just because some people don't like it is no excuse to ban indoor vaping. Let businesses chose what they do, segregated areas should alleviate the issue of offensive plumes of strawberry vapour or whatever.
Interesting that there's a current thread on the go where someone's complaining about perfume, posters jumping in wanting strong scents banned indoors.
I despair sometimes how precious folk have become.

Believing that vaping is harmful is not jumping on the anti-vaping bandwagon. Common sense tells you that repeatedly inhaling chemicals into your lungs is going to damage them.

If vaping helps people to stop smoking then it is a good thing to use short term. However, it shouldn't be inflicted on non-vapers so, in response to the OP, I am glad that pubs, workplaces etc are banning it.

I used to smoke so I know all the ways in which smokers kid themselves that what they are doing doesn't affect other people and I feel that vapers are kidding themselves too. It smells awful and I feel sick when I'm in the same room as someone vaping. A PP mentioned having a tight chest when waking up in a room that her friends had been vaping in. Vape away if it helps you but inflicting it on non-vapers is as selfish as smoking around non-smokers.

It's not fair to roundly castigate posters who read the 'evidence' based on the California reports, though. The reports are well written, by eminent scientists and appear to be at the root of the US law making. Why wouldn't anyone quote them when evidence is discussed? They seem to be a legitimate voice.

That those who have looked deeper, taken more notice of the methodology and specific wording of the reports know it is, for the most part, sleight of hand at best, outright lies as interpreted, is, sadly, par for the course.

I am also sceptical about posts like Redzer because, living with a vaper, I know that the vape smell dissipates really quickly and, whilst a few vapers together will cause a sweet smelling fug, it isn't foul and doesn't cause any problems, like perfume... which can have me in breathless tears.

Not saying I don't believe you Redzer just that your experience does not match my own, and I am one of those miserable toads who hates strong smells and is often forced to leave rooms because of them.

But the bottom line is that vaping is far, far safer than smoking and demonising it threatens its wider acceptance.

But its not about whether vaping is more or less dangerous about smoking.

It's whether vaping is appropriate in an enclosed space, which it isn't.

But its not about whether vaping is more or less dangerous about smoking. Which would be a decision based on facts.

It's whether vaping is appropriate in an enclosed space, which it isn't. Which would be a decision based on opinion.

The 2 are usually combined when discussed. Those for concentrate on the first, those against on the second.

Both are valid, it's just the disinformation (like the California report and that weird popcorn lung thing) and rabid anti vapers that need to be growled at

I have to admit, MN is usually quite measured on this. Places DH has a read round tend to get hit by hordes of antis, well on the warpath.

I've been vaping for just over 3 years. I refuse to get into an argument about the safety of vaping, if people can't see that going from about 500 chemicals to just nicotine and glycerol with flavourings is better then they're obviously missing the bleeding obvious! I've never felt better and I smoked for 20 years before this.

Anyway, re the pub. I haven't been out much on the town since I started vaping but I've never gone outside of any building or train or even plane to vape since I started. If there was such a rule in place I would stick it up my sleeve and vape discreetly or have a good puff in the loo's! I certainly wouldn't stand outside passive smoking! Crazy!

Oh and as for vaping in an enclosed space this comes down to a respect for others. I wouldn't breathe clouds of vape onto another person, it just rude, but vaping near to somebody won't cause any second hand vape issues. There's no dangers to their health, it's just not very nice.

Maybe I'm just oversensitive to the smell. I'm not around it loads but find the smell very unpleasant when I am and for me it lingers. Maybe I wouldn't notice it so much if I was around it on a more regular basis. I don't know what flavours are being used. Each to their own though. Far better than the cigarettes and I'm glad my friends no longer smoke but still, for me, it's not pleasant to be around.

I have to admit, MN is usually quite measured on this.

I dunno Blanche, were you around for the 'vaping in legoland' thread? (it was in chat so has gone now, unfortunately) It was spectacularly rabid and also unintentionally hilarious. My favourite bit was when some of the antivapers conceded that maybe it would be OK to let people vape outdoors at legoland without going to the smoking area, but only if they registered as an addict on the way in and agreed to wear a special armband so they could be pointed out as An Example To The Children

That was a while ago now though and it has got better generally, on MN as well as elsewhere. I think the PHE report has made a big difference.

I would always ask before vaping in someone's house or a bar and I rarely get told no but if I do I'll just vape in the loo if I don't want to go outside. I do feel that vapers get a bit of a hard time from plenty of people, who don't seem to recognise the fact that we're actually doing this because we made a sane decision to reduce harm to ourselves and others by stopping smoking. A colleague was shaking her head at me saying "you just need to stop. Next time I see you I don't want you to be doing that."

I just smiled but inwardly I was saying fuck off, pal! Patches, gum, lozenges, hypnosis, can't take Champix because I'm already on meds for MH issues (and I challenge anyone to say quitting smoking is easy when you have MH problems. It's brutal), finally something that keeps me off the fags. I've just turned 30 and thought my whole life would be blighted by smoking. Give us a break, recognise that we're trying to save ourselves.

I've been vaping for just over 3 years

As a way of giving up smoking?

3 years isn't at all unusual, SirChenjin.

I still have some want-to-be-quitters on our lists from when I very first ran Stop Sessions, about 11 years ago. They come in, quit for a while, lapse, leave for the required space, or longer, come back, start again with a different NRT... and on it goes.

But we have significantly less of them as they switch to vaping as a replacement that may or may not lead to quitting. They get health and financial benefits almost immediately - less stress, less harmful shite, less money. They still pop in and report how much better they feel, how much they notice the stench of other smokers, etc.

Even my DH (who I would never, ever offer cessation advice) has been vaping for a couple of years. He has recently decreased the nicotine strength, which increased his 'huff' rate for a while. He does have hope of quitting it, just not rushing it. He has a bit of a mental block with it as he had quit but started again when his mum died. This is his 'safe' way to quit again.

And missed the vaping in Legoland...

I think non smokers have no idea how hard it is to quit smoking. Which is why vaping is a godsend to so many of us. Also it's just not harmful to bystanders so all the arguments about banning smoking in enclosed spaces just don't apply to vaping! Wish there were pubs that had a vapers welcome here sign rather than banning it just because a few people don't like it. Car fumes will cause you more damage than vaping ever will! Not going to give up your bloody cars tho are you??

Quite right Destiny. And I get super fed up when people who I know get hammered at least once a week and have Wine o'clock signs all over their kitchens get on at me for vaping when i rarely drink because it too often messes with my head.

That's interesting Blanche, thanks for that explanation.

I'm still firmly on the 'no stinking smoke indoors' - whether that comes from a cigarette or from the sickly sweet fug of someone vaping. I appreciate that there are health benefits in comparison to smoking tobacco, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed in public spaces imo.

My teenage DCs report that there are kids at their school who are taking up vaping instead of cigarettes as a way of fitting in because it's seen as a new, trendy thing to do - that's pretty worrying.

I'm all for people quitting smoking but being in a room where people are emitting various smells from the vape flavours is pretty unpleasant.

Maybe it comes down to customers not wanting to consume food/drink while breathing in the scent of forest fruits, bubblygum, mint, etc?

I read that all the time, SirChenjin. I have met a few, but they seem to use 0 nicotine juices. So, odd, but not worrying in the way that drinking and smoking, legal highs etc are.

There should be a study on that somewhere... but at this time f night, I am unlikely to find it, and it may have been a DM-alike article anyway [shame]

Maybe it comes down to customers not wanting to consume food/drink while breathing in the scent of forest fruits, bubblygum, mint, etc?

True. Such a smell would completely spoil the taste of many puddings of, erm, forest fruits, bubblegum, mint, etc

So if you were using a 0% nicotine
e cig in a pub would they still be able to ban it? And if so on what grounds..?

Yes, based on their opinions and choice of who to serve / what to allow in their own establishment.

It is entirely down to the landlord.

Not worrying in the same way that smoking and legal highs are, but unless they are sensible enough to use 0 nicotine juices then it's still worrying - and that's before you factor in the idea that they are still taking it up and hanging round with nicotine smokers when they previously didn't.

Link to Channel 4 report (and related pubs here) - interesting link between ecigs (not sure if that means vaping) and alcohol, which bears out my DCs stories of the kids at their school. Report also shows that the use of ecigs (again, doesn't say whether that's vaping, but I imagine the full report will) is more prevalent amongst young cigarette smokers www.channel4.com/news/e-cigarettes-young-people-health-smoking-resreach