Am I being unfair?

[fantasticfour]

My partner's ex seems to not think that just basic care of their kids is important. They stay here regularly and we notice they're often not overly clean (their clothes are but not them themselves) - DSD said that the only times he has a bath is at our place. Today once we'd got them home, he took off his coat and was only wearing a t shirt, so we hunted round to find warmer things for him. This morning they and ex said that the only thing they'd had to eat was a tube of sweets each, and they didn't want lunch as they were too full up.

The maintenance is more than enough to cover all clothing requirements and to keep them clean and well fed. At the moment we both just want to have the kids here all the time, just so we know we're at least giving them the basics.

I've almost finished raising my own kids, and I know that everyone has different standards - am I being unfair to think that their mum isn't doing her job properly?

People have different standards and beliefs and ways of doing things - best not to dwell on it, and I say this as I'm trying to take my own advice! My DSS is not bathed at home, either. Just keep them clean while they are at yours, have clean warm (or otherwise appropriate) clothes in the car at pick-up time and try not to judge. To be honest, it doesn't sound like neglect or anything too serious to me.

Yes, I think you're right - she does love them and they love her. But when you hear them say that they always have fish fingers or chicken nuggets at home and don't have to use cutlery, or that they both get to sleep by watching a dvd in their rooms (bearing in mind one's at playschool, the other one in Year 4), or the fact that the ex asked us to potty train DD, which we attempted 3 times over the summer, sending her back in pants and the last time was very successful - wees in potty no problem - and each time DD is sent back to us in nappies, it kind of gets to you, doesn't it. But, like you say, there's nothing harmful as such going on I guess, and we can do things our way when they're here, and they seem to cope ok with it all.

Not sure how the future's going to pan out though as ex seems to take path of least resistance, which isn't going to help anyone.

In the nicest way possible I think your being a bit picky, you obviously care for them very much and maybe her standards are lower than yours that doesn't make either of your child raising capabilities superior just different.

I know a few kids, all from good families Imo, that watch DVDs to get to sleep.

Kids often say "I've had nothing to eat" or "we had chicken nuggets all week" it's often rubbish they might have had them once or twice but certainly not every night.

fantastic their mum is neglecting them, you know it.
I know it, DSD has that treatment time and again

My own kids all ended up with tvs in their rooms, but I resisted until they were at least at secondary school. But I do take on board almostreal what you're saying. The last thing I want to do is undermine how their mum does things, or pass on to the kids how I feel about it, because she is their mum and they love her. I'd have hated it if anyone had done that to my kids.

There's no easy solution to this one.

people parent in different ways. At this time of year children tend to be allowed more sweets than usual. One of my children has a shower only when prompted and doesn't feel the cold so would wear the T-shirt without the coat! Fish fingers and chicken nuggets aren't ideal but I agree that children can overstate how often they have these things.

You'd like the children with you all the time so you're looking for excuses - but they need to be with their mother too.

Yes they do need to be with their mum, I agree. I don't think I'm looking for things though, nor is my partner. We just want to see them well looked after really. And I do think it's their mum's job to do that as well as us.

Maybe it is a little harder bringing children up alone?

You have your partner there for help and support, she does not.

You should maybe be grateful no-one was judgeing YOUR parenting when your children were little (or were you a perfect parent?)

If you think she is not coping well why not offer more help rather than planning how to take her children away? - A better way to spend your time i think???

I think a few responses are a little harsh. If a child were returning to it's mother unclean and claiming to have only eaten sweets at Dad's, I would imagine she would be a little concerned too. Its natural as a parent because you can't see how the other person cares for the child ... that said though, its also very easy for a child to not be very strict with the truth. There could also be other explanations for the being unclean and wearing only a Tshirt. I went to my parents the other day with my eldest in just a tshirt and coat because I knew we weren't going out anywhere and my parents house is always lovely and warm.

It should really be down to your hubby to try to get to the bottom of his concerns.

Littlemooninmamma - no of course I wasn't and am still not the perfect parent. For the record, the kids mum is remarried and has support from all grandparents as well as us (the kids are with us about 45-50 % of the time).

I've had a spell at bringing kids up by myself, on benefits, and I do know how hard it is. But this isn't the case here, there's no lack of support or money available. I'm just concerned that there doesn't seem to be the basics being met while they're at their mums - some basics but not all.

Also, for the record...... we're not planning anything, least of all taking the kids away. We just feel a bit sad sometimes but we do recognise that this is how their mum does things - and it's not just at Christmas they have sweets instead of meals.

Just do it your way and be confident that 50% of the time all their basic needs are being met. As they get older they will voice their opinions more! I'm sure it's very hard to ignore it all but unless it starts getting neglectful just try and disengage from it all and be a great parent to them when they are with you.

Thanks SleighGirl - I think that's the best course of action all round really. I don't want to make things harder for anyone, least of all the kids. And, at the end of the day, they're happy.

sweets regularly instead of meals IS neglectful.

she sounds lazy.

Well, yes. Parenting takes effort. I know I do get it wrong sometimes, but just meeting basic needs is the least any of us can do.

a child's most basic need is for love and affection. They need a home, food, water and clothing but they are getting that even if the food isn't ideal. You haven't asked for suggestions on what to do. You said you'd both like the children with you all the time but now say you aren't planning anything like that. If you aren't then the only purpose in posting seems to be to say look at how much better a parent I am.

On your statements you feed them better and wash them more often and if you really need approval for that then yes you do that part of parenting better.

This is however a woman your partner chose to live with for a number of years and have kids by.
If you love him and he seems a nice bloke why would he choose to marry and have kids with her if she is really that awful?
I presume he felt her ability to look after kids was OK whilst he was with her.
If my current husband criticised my ex alot I would feel that was a criticism of me and my choice to marry him and live with him for nearly a decade.
Kids often "forget" or selectively remember stuff.
I've dropped the kids off with my ex after a few days of being fairly active and heard him ask "what have you been up to" and heard them reply "nothing!"
Similarly they'll tell me they had a boring weekend with their dad and gradually all sorts of exciting activities come out, not to say having a quiet weekend can't also be fun but kids aren't very reliable in telling you what they've done.
Sending them in inadequate clothing is unreasonable and I'd get your partner to suggest a minimum clothing list wiith their mum.
The never using cutlery thing sounds like a fib. If my kids came out with that I'd know it was nonsense as their dad has good table manners.
Would your husband marry a person who never uses cutlery? It's unlikely but if he believes their stories he could raise it with his ex in a "I suspect they are just making this up but is it true....". My ex and I have found this is helpful if the kids try to play us off against each other.

Well, no they didn't agree on how to raise kids alot, and it was difficult and still is to a degree for him to not get upset about how things are done at their mum's house.

I know what you mean though, about being careful not to criticise their mum, and I am mindful of that. He is such a lovely dad and I try not to say what I'm thinking alot of the time.

I know kids are selective, and they are happy so that's all that really matters.

tatt I seem to have pressed some of your buttons. I just posted what I was thinking/feeling. Thought that was the (one of the) point of Mumsnet?

Gosh, am I the mother of your DSC?!

I am a pretty relaxed parent. I do not routinely bath my children every day, sometime they are/look dirty/grubby, they are all boys, it is impossible to keep them clean all the time, the oldest is allowed to stay up until whatever time he likes and fall asleep in bed watching TV, sometimes I can't be bothered at all, so they have crisps and fruit for lunch, a jam sandwich, or fishfingers for dinner. Occasionally they have had sweets for breakfast, especially at this time of year...

In general though, they are well cared for and extremely well loved, which they know. They are all in perfect health, in fact, now aged 13, 9 and 5 I have only ever had to make one doctors appointment other than for routine things like vaccinations, they simply never get ill. (in spite of the fact my youngest has Downs and in theory should get more chest infections etc than the average child). They are also, polite, happy and well adjusted children, and everyone comments on that. So I can't be doing that much wrong...

As a stepparent myself, I know it is very easy to judge the other parent, but people do do things differently, and as long as the children are generally Ok (which it sounds liek they are) then you do just have to accept it and let it go. If you genuinely fel she is neglecting them, do something about it.

fantasticfour - It seems to me that anyone not agreeing with you and telling you that you are "fantastic!" is pushing YOUR buttons.

I dont think you wanted any advice, just a big pat on the back for being such a wonderful parent and agreement that the children would of course be much better off with you.

My children have today been covered in mud (watching and playing rugby) wearing only a t-shirt and coat (5yr old) as she runs around so much steam comes off her! Covered in paint and glue (making stuff out of the christmas cards) Covered in food (eating in a rush so they can get on with playing) Eating with their fingers (OMG!!!!) Eating what was left of their selection packs (OMG yes !!! sweets!!!!)

As my doctor once pointed out when I appologised for my daughters snot covered face - A lot of the children who are truly neglected are the spotlessly clean ones who are sat in front of a TV all day and ignored or have parents who hate mess and restrict them from having any fun in life.

None of what you have said sounds like neglect just nitpicking, if you were genuine you would be talking to SS.

Wow some pretty harsh replies here!

We all have different standards of care for our own children, biological or not and unfortunately some fall short in one way or another to our own.

First point I would make is that at least your stepchild had a coat on in this horrible weather...it's some consolation if nothing else. Another is that during the festive season, my kids have also been stuffing their faces with rubbish, none of which I've been keen on, but have relented knowing that as of this week, normality should resume and PROPER meals will too!

I'm not sure if I would describe myself as old fashioned or that I just have basic standards where children are concerned, but one thing I know is that mine (and my stepchild) are bathed each night, have a freshly laundered set of clothes each day, haircuts when they need them and a decent diet. Anybody who says that they're too poor to feed their kids is a liar!! Fresh fruit and vegetables in season are the cheapest form of nutrition anybody can get hold of throughout the year! As for cleanliness, a bar of soap (useful for washing clothes too!) costs nothing if you're really hard up which I would again find hard to believe given the state benefits in this country.

Finally...I think you're just a little sensitive over the whole matter which isn't a bad thing, to know that you're looking out for the children is more than some people would do. Provided the children aren't suffering from excessive ailments or illnesses which could be directed towards their lack of care, do what you always do from now on...care for them, love them and know that when they're with you they're getting that little more pampering x

Sometimes in my paranoid moments I think there is a whole bunch of 'first wives' on MN, just waiting for a stepmum to open her mouth (about anything at all) so they can jump right down her throat.

The OP asked if she was being unfair, and voiced concerns about children she obviously cares about. Shouldn't we all be vigilant about neglect of children? Sometimes it is hard to know where the line is between neglect and a 'relaxed parenting style'.

I had similar issues with my DSS, who is not bathed at home at all due to mother's beliefs (or possibly mental health issues) and we've had the endlessly in nappies scenario (with nappy rash so bad the nappy would stick to the open wounds) and all kinds of stuff - like refusing to allow him to bring his glasses with him for the weekend so he couldn't see properly...

People toss the SS into the debate but we've been right through the system and it is virtually impossible to get anyone to pay any attention - we discovered at one point that the Officer designated to DSS hadn't done a home visit in over a year because it 'made mother uncomfortable' despite the concerns we had raised about the home environment.

So, grit your teeth, Fantasticfour, be prepared for all kinds of snide comments, and do what you can in the time you have the kids.

The thing is mmred that while you have physical proof of neglect (and no-one would argue that),

The OP has absolutly NO proof whatsoever of any neglect. If you read the other posts you will see that most mums are guilty of feeding their children chicken nuggets (and letting them be eaten with fingers), not washing children every day, letting them eat sweets, dressing them inappropriatly sometimes.

The OP is coming accross as being smug about her parenting whilst accusing others of neglect.

I am not a 'first wife' so yes you are being paranoid. My fist daughters dad is not with us anymore so I guess my DH is her stepdad, although we have never been anything other than mum and dad to her. He has never once said a bad word about her biological dad (he forgets its not him )

Whilst we should all be vigilant against genuine signs of abuse we should absoulutly not make FALSE alligations to get at other people - whether you are a step - parent or not

That should read 'first daughter' -whoops!

Can i also add that if this post was from a lone parent about a step - parent my opinion would be exactly the same.