Worried things might get worse

[Ionop]

DP has a 50/50 split with his ex wife (not court ordered agreed amicably) and day to day communication between everyone is fairly basic but normal and things plod along. I am not heavily involved in their parenting arrangements as it’s not my place, but DP will obviously vent to me sometimes and I see where he is coming from. Technically there is no reason to communicate as much as they have to, but because of the issues below this creates more reason for contact because it’s chaotic and disorganised

I assume people will assume there is more to the story about their marriage and DP was some kind of ogre but he never likes to rock the boat or cause inconvenience to anyone.

• She is always late for arranged pick ups/drop offs with no communication to let him know. This can leave us, and/or the DC sitting around waiting
• She leaves DP’s messages unread for hours even days sometimes (once a whole week) including ignoring his calls but will double or triple text him and call him when it suits her. DP says she did this to him when they were married as well, yet is always stuck to her phone 24/7
• She interrupts and disrupts DP’s time with the DC constantly. He does not disrupt hers.
• She changes plans all the time at the last minute or interprets them in her own way to benefit her. An example I can give is that if we say pick up is after work, she will be vague about the time so it drags it out and you can’t make proper arrangements such as cooking food or being in the right place at the right time
• She forgets all the kids stuff all the time so they never have the things they need
• She will never give proper info it’s always vague and non commital and doesn’t answer direct questions
• She doesn’t follow their agreement of how to add her plans to the family calendar then blames DP for ‘forgetting’ them (when they aren’t in the diary and she instigated them)
• She wants to know all of DP’s travel plans with the DC but ignores any requests for the same info in return

She has her own partner FYI. Since DP and I have got more serious over the years, I feel like this is getting worse. I suspect she might be feeling a bit threatened by my presence? I don’t know. DP is doing very well for himself in life, we have our life together, strong unit and I get on great with the kids.

DP is often frustrated and disappointed, almost like he is a 2nd class person/citizen whereas he is an equally involved parent who does his equal share of parenting (without my assistance). I don’t know what I can do to help as I find myself getting frustrated too.

These are all completely unnecessary and will easily create stress.

How old are the children?
How is she disrupting DH's time?

Could DH address any of these by changing logistics (ie he picks up and drops off at hers and the children have lists so they don't forget what to pack/you have second uniform)? He shouldn't have to but would it avoid some of the issues?

If the children are young then he might want to consider formalising arrangements in court because this sounds more deliberately obstructive than flakey.

And he can stop telling her travel plans - it's a courtesy which is she failing to return.

Does she do all pick ups and drop offs or does she and your partner take turns? Who ‘makes the plans’? Not trying to project, but it’s always down to me to sort both of the above, it can get frustrating. If the children need to be at yours for a certain time, does dad pick them up to keep it regular for example? Does he say ‘X and Y plan is happening this day so I’ll come get them for 10am’?

court order and contact via parenting app is the answer, surely?

The age of the children is crucial here - I’ll respond to it all after you’ve come back on that

Is she just “like that” (self-absorbed and self-important) or is it targeted at your DP?

Change changeovers to at school / clubs. If it’s week on / week off then change to a 5-5-2-2 pattern so the children are always in the same place on a given school day, so PE kits and equipment can stay at the right house.

That should pretty much eliminate any issues with logistics.

They are 7 and 9.

DP has to do most of the chasing and ends up doing most pick ups and drop offs so that time isn’t being lost to the universe sitting around waiting. They are meant to take turns but on her turn, she just doesn’t respect his time at all.

He says she is generally like this but I am not so sure, she gets to work or school on time so I think it’s a reluctance or disinterest to coparent with DP and disrespect of his time.

I think she wishes he wasn’t in the picture at all sometimes. There is a set schedule but she is always trying to change it, add to it, mess it about. DP does say no if it’s not relevant to the DC and inconvenient but if it is benefitting the DC he is flexible. DP rarely asks for changes or extra. He plans things on his own time.

She gets DP to make all the plans up then comes in with her plans afterwards. He has tried to get her to plan collaboratively but she just ignores him most of the time, unless it’s something she wants. They have shared diary and it seems she expect DP to be the one to add to it following an off the cuff comment or random text rather than a clear request or commitment.

I don’t think DP would want to go to court, it’s not like a lot of what you read online about how bad it can get between parents it’s still just shit though

It sounds like your partner needs to learn to say no. It’ll get worse if you have your own kids, as her actions will end up messing you and them around too.

If you don’t want to hear his venting any more, just tell him.

What needs to happen ideally is, they agree the pattern and stick to it, including timings and pick up/drop offs and who does each. No one needs to then contact unless it has to change (which most of the time, it shouldn't).

I'd suggest the parent who has the child next comes to get them. That way there's no driving someone anywhere just to drop them off. It's just nicer.

So, mum collects DC on Mondays at 5pm. Dad collects DC on Wednesdays at 5pm. (Or whatever). Easier and more predictable for everyone.

Btw I'm talking about one set basic simple plan, set in stone - no faffing around with shared diaries.

they are almost old enough to be packing the things they need themselves which should help over time and I would absolutely ensure they have everything they need at your house to prevent the ‘she never sends what they need’ nonsense. When I got divorced I clearly told my ex I would not be packing and washing and unpacking for the kids and that they would come with a few personal bits ( soft toy etc) but everything else needed to be at his , including school uniform / spare PE kit etc.

she just sounds really controlling and your DH needs to stand up for himself, she’ll soon get bored if it when it doesn’t all go her ways I really don’t understand these women at all, like you’ve all moved on so just do that , don’t try and hold on to the past and be nasty for the sake of it, it just makes you look bitter and ridiculous!

I would move all communication onto one of the court approved parenting Apps in case he does decide a CAO is needed.

Decide which matters the most contact starting or ending on time and stick to doing that only rather than it being discussed/negotiated so often. Maybe pick up so he can check they have what they need.

Same with stopping the flex on days etc. Grey rock - each parent puts their own holiday requests in the calendar, who gets there first etc.

In fact he just needs to grey rock about arrangements full stop. “That doesn’t work for me, we need to stick to our agreement”.

Sure she may be continually late to collect but just anticipate it and let it wash over you.

I had not updated previously thanks for responses. She has not yet visited our house.

Well we had a situation where we spent about 10 hours negotiating a child pick up with her, it was absolutely ridiculous and all centred around ex trying to either keep the SDC for longer, or get an invite to our house - neither of which were at all convenient for us due to our locations and plans that day. It wasn’t us trying to be difficult - we were not at home!

It’s not DP’s fault he had already clearly said in advance I will collect SDC at X time on X date, but the morning of this he got a message asking what time. He repeated the time and location and then she proceeded to keep messaging saying well I could drop them off later? DP replied we aren’t home, we are at work, it’s ok one of us will collect them or meet you somewhere and we have plans that afternoon with the DC so let’s stick to the time. Where do you want to meet? Where will you be? She then doesn’t message him back for hours. So then she suggests keeping them for longer, interrupting our plans, and offering to drop them off (but from experience this could be any time in a 3 hour window) but DP stuck to his original plan and right up until the last minute we didn’t even know the pick up was happening where or what time, but it did. It’s exhausting. Since being back with DP she has been constantly messaging him every day asking about the DC

I don’t know why she acts like this nothing makes sense

She drops them off with no coats and school shoes or trainers. So if the handover day is after school and she has picked them up, they are wearing their school stuff then, but then if handover up is on a weekend it’s fine if it’s a pick up as DP makes sure but her drop offs always involve DP having nothing suitable for the next school day as she has ‘forgotten’ it all. And she ends up doing drop offs because she changes the plans.

The number of times DP has had to drive all the way to her house to collect shoes is crazy.

They both have their own clothes at each house including uniform but they do not have 2 x school shoes and she buys them fashion trainers (think canvas with lots of laces or expensive but impractical) rather than child suitable trainers (that can get wet and are practical) but the practical ones they have worn for PE, and of course she has forgotten them

Plus anyway, the reason the DC don’t remember to pack their own things either is because she puts them into the bath or shower 5 mins before pick up time so the DC are never ready to leave, soaking wet and DP has to stand outside for 30-45 mins waiting. The pick up time is late morning

Can he set some boundaries around this?
No baths at collection time? That is mad behaviour! Initially she will probably react but if he can be a stuck record and just keep in a neutral way repeating the boundaries it might help. Could he meet up just then to go through this? To say just it feels like things are quite stressful for the kids at the moment with how our arrangements are working I need us to work together on sorting this out.

For some things, if you're able to have a back up pair of shoes and trainers for example, you shouldn't have to do that, but if it frees you all and the kids from some of the control it's worth the investment.

I’d be careful about “set in stone” arrangements - real life will conspire against you, and this could well end up biting you on the bum

Can he set some boundaries around this?
No baths at collection time? That is mad behaviour!

So if he turns up and they’re in the bath, how about he drives off and tells his ex to drive them over to his house when they’re dry/dressed?

I really feel for you. This is unlikely to get better in my opinion and u are describing my life and so exact to what iv experienced for the last 14 years. Mum out to sabotage everything and be awkward when all u do is try ur best to keep a level head and things ok for the child. It’s absolutely exhausting. It’s so easy to say to just stick to plans etc but this is not an option when someone is deliberately sabotaging things as whatever u decide to try and do to ease things then that will also get sabotaged and it’s just an endless mind-f**k of a cycle which makes u feel like ur going crazy and cause fights between urself and ur partner as there is no winning with this woman.

Wer now experiencing a period of no contact with my 18 dsd which has been the worst time of our lives. We believe that her mum has worn her down for years with little back handed negative comments about us that it has finally resulted in her taking the option of not seeing us to pleaae her mum. From things dsd has said in the past of complaint of her
mum and she’s told us what her mum says about us is how I feel this is what’s happened. It just feels like the 14 years of effort has
jjst been a big waste of time and wonder if we would have been better walking away but that was never I would have done never mind my hisband. Funnily for us things were teh best without all the sabotage when dsd mother was in a relationship but since being single for a long time now it’s just escalated now resulting in this radio silence from her to us. She’s told us her mother has said ‘you don’t have to go to ur dads’ , ‘just stay with me’ and then resulting in behaviour of letting her do as she pleases up the road(no bedtimes, no rules for bedroom tidiness, buying her vapes @ 16) which has uoset us as we knew we were getting painted as the bad ones for having standards and boundaries. We are not strict people so not even as if Wer a strict household but I do think all kids needs a lights out time (at 16/17 it was 1230/1am which I still think is more than reasonable) but we flakes and never perused coz at mums it was all hours of teh night and sleeping all
day so literally up until 4/5am in the morning which I find insane.

anyway I am really sorry to hear ur going thru this and happy
to chat thru pm if u ever need to vent about things.

I am sorry I haven’t got more positive outcome as iv thot for 14 years ‘if we just keep plodding on trying to do what we think is right then things will all turn out ok’. This is very wrong and wev not seen dsd since 29th December and she’s ignoring all texts from me my husband and her younger sister who she alwasy had such a strong bond with. And to have to see my own daughter upset over this is just off teh scale upsetting and not sure how I can ever come back from this if she decides to contact us again.

I hope ur situation is different and improves for u and ur husband. No commuted decent dad should have to go thru this with their children.

I think that you need to take the financial hit on backups for everything. Supermarket school shoes and cheap Decathlon trainers etc. Don't tell her. Also I think he should get a court ordered arrangement. This is not "amicable". She's being extremely passive aggressive.

she’s playing a lot of control games but certainly your partner could be much less available - particularly when you have the kids - and not answer all the messages

Given their ages, the children could be more involved in getting what they bring to and fro right

Eg give them a brief list to keep in their school bag so they can check they have everything before they get in the car to be dropped off

Because they could be dropped in the next 1-3 hours and ruins the whole day we can have no plans

I wouldn't change your plans. If you're going out, then go out. You need to play hard ball here, if she decides to drop them off 2 hours later, and you're out, then she'll have lost her child-free time, possibly disrupting HER plans, and she won't like it. While your DP panders to her, things won't change

@SpainToday nothing much makes sense. I know it sounds like I am being defeatist but whatever plan we have, she will mess it up. Sometimes the plans involve the SDC! Birthday parties (always late) and family events so if we went without the kids… that’s what she wants. She seems to want to cut DP out. In the early days she was out all the time barely ever had them (DP had them full time for at least 2 years) or got them babysat now she’s done a 360 and trying to claw back all the time she missed. She is always trying to claw back time from DP. She told DP they were ‘hard work’ when they were very little so left him to do that bit (potty training and all the domestic chores) and now they are older she has found a guy who does most of the drudgery and she is Disney mum.

It is all control but it surely makes her own life more complex and she never seems to think about the DC. If she speaks to the DC when they are with us she spends the whole conversation whining about how much she misses them (instead of wishing them a good time).

Awful question but how and when was the split? Even if she’s with someone the fact that the youngest is 7 means it wasn’t that long ago so there’s a huge chance she’s either bitter against your dh and hates him, or still loves him

Did he leave her for you? If so this will never change, sadly.

No he didn’t leave her for me and she left him when the youngest was tiny. I think she made it clear to him that she got the ick. All the other explanations would make more sense