Uniform costs part of CMS payments?

[Odellio]

SS starts secondary school in September. Is it normal that uniform costs are split between parents in addition to CMS payments for the NRP? Or would uniform costs be covered by CMS?

The nrp is supposed to pay for anything the children need on their time. If the children go to school straight from the house that means that they'll need to purchase school uniform. They if they don't and it's something they only use at your house, it's up to the rp to buy it.

I don't pay for extras. He does. I'm really confused why you're having a go at me

@magnoliablooms Ok apologies... your DH pays then, not from joint funds, good on him. I'm not having a go at you at all now you've clarified this.

I haven't said a low earning NRP should pay extras and not a higher earning NRP.

I've said that it seems a tad fanciful that 1000 and 300 per a month are both the 'minimum' however its dressed up. If you had two RPs out for a coffee I think the RP receiving 300 a month (using my example earlier in the thread) may struggle to bite their tongue if they heard the other RP moaning about receiving the minimum of 1000 a month.

I do think there are circumstances where an NRP should contribute extra. The issue as I see it is when the case lands with CMS the parents have probably gone far past caring about what is or isn't a perceived minimum

For what it's worth I think cms based on exs salary is unfair as a starting principle as I'm not sure why some RPs deserve more money than others merely due to their ex. A more generic system for the receiving parent with the NRP still contributing based on salary level may actually resolve some of the issues as there'd be less of a bun fight based on how many nights a week CMS is calculated. I think a system that actually rewarded good behaviours might also cut out a lot of the court cases relayed to child matters

There is the moral and legal answer .

legally the nrp has to pay anything .

The nrp usually has more options to increase income .

what I will say is if the nrp doesn’t want to share costs you can’t make them . I think it gives them more power. I say this as someone who raised there child with £7 a week child maintenance

Thank you for clarifying also. Peace and love

Technically CM covers uniform payments but morally, many NRP pay half of uniform especially for first year secondary where the cost is high.

FWIW most people that I know get CM plus useful extras like their child’s mobile phone contract, uniform or an activity paid for.

I would agree with this argument for certain items. For example, we put the kids into extra curricular clubs on our time and don’t expect her to pay for them or any kit that is required. But when you birth two children I’m sure you should expect to pay for school supplies, the children need to be educated. It’s not something we are opting to do on our time with them, it’s mandatory.

Things like that should either be paid out the cm, or negotiated between the parents

I think CMS should include uniform.

In theory, maybe. But both those options are not possible for us. When CMS is so low it doesn’t cover even the cost of their swimming lessons, let alone housing and feeding them. And negotiating with a parent who holds no value to extra curricular goes nowhere.

If cm is so low it means that the npr is on a low wage and likely he cannot afford to pay for extras. If you are the resident parent, its down to you to cover these things.
Are you in the UK? What school supplies do you have to pay for? Maybe have a word with school and let them know that you're struggling

SHE actually does not declare her full income to CMS.

We aren’t struggling. DH works hard to give everything the kids need and they don’t go without.

Sorry,I didn't realise the nrp was the mother.
It doesn't change my answer though.
If you can prove that she's not declaring all her income you have the option to report her to hmrc

Is she self-employed?

I would report to HMRC as I hate thieves and people who lie in the tax returns are stealing from all of us. Double shitty of her to lie to get out of supporting her own children.

If HMRC investigate and find she has under declared, CMS will then use the correct figures.

My children are due to go on a school residential in March at a cost of £290 per child (I have twins). My ex refuses to contribute a penny, stating that the cms payment covers this. So basically a 6th of what he pays me a year is the equivalent of this school trip. I honestly just think he'll get his comeuppance in the future... Hope he does anyway!

I'm not gonna lie - my ex gives cms standard amount which is low due to his income and half of uniform although admittedly I will sometimes "forget" not ask for---- half of the uniform/trips because I realise that he struggles with money as he's on a much lower income than me. And I have been known to gift him money if he's struggling or pause it if something comes up his side

Don't all come at me but for us maintenance isn't a bill that gets paid no matter what if that's going to leave him unable to eat, heat his home etc.

On the flip side my DH pays his ex well above cms level for his pay (about £500) a month for his one daughter and half of absolute everything - including 50p for the £1 mufti day and every Christmas the ex says go spend Christmas with your new family and have a lovely time while we can't afford anything so usually ends up paying for their Christmas (his ex has a partner). My dsd is a teen and mum refuses to work other than v part time as she needs her "me time" while dsd is in school.

The difference in these break ups - my ex cheated on me repeatedly after the death of our son and I left him while I was pregnant with dd and we co parent well together and are friendly.

My husbands ex cheated on him with the partner she has now and will tell anyone that will listen that he's a deadbeat dad because she won't support her not to work full time and gets pissed off because I am a high earner and she believed when we married my income would mean her maintenance would include my wage. Oh and my husband has dsd nearly 50/50. I have said that the arrangement they have is nothing to do with me and he needs to provide for his daughter how he sees fit but please don't involve me either way in maintenance discussions

What time trying to say that is all blended families are different as there isn't a rule book either way. MN doesn't like blended families so will come and try and tell you the rules but if you ask everyone to specify and agree on what the rules are.All that will happen is a massive bum fight.

I received CMS, I covered uniform out of that, never occurred for me to ask for any more as there was enough there to cover it.

I am a Mum and an NRP. I have always contributed to school uniform yearly. Typically at least 50%

I do wonder though if it's because I was the RP when my eldest was growing up and his Dad gave me nothing in CMS.

I am the paying NRP and I can assure you CMS does not make you pay the minimum.
they calculate on your gross pay and don’t take any of your financial circumstances into account.
Do your research. The CMS is the most inept, corrupt, ineffective government dept I have ever come across.
It caused Mental health issues, due to the stress it causes, marriage break ups and in some cases suicides, yet it is not held accountable for any of it.
My Ex’s financial needs are reducing as my eldest is now at college so does not require a school uniform and also has a part time job which pays well so she buys her own clothes etc.
My youngest is in year 10 and as he is doing PE as a GCSE wears pe kit to school 4 days a week.
there are lots of other costs I know have been saved because my kids tell me yet I am still required to pay the same amount of money.
the Payment is reviewed by cms every year and any increase in salary will mean my payment is increased again.
How is that fair.
I would say that 99% of people who are the paying parent, only pay what the CMS demand of you because they physically can’t afford to give any more.
I pay over 35% of my net salary a month to my ex, then I still have to pay a mortgage, maintenance for the Building my flat is in, and all my bills, and food. The reality is there is nothing left at the end of the month.
I am having to sell my flat and downsize to a 1 bed purely because due to increased CMS payments I can’t afford to live in it…
Maybe people need to look at the other side of the argument before slagging NRP off for not paying enough.

I agree with you @Geordie69111 - as someone who received payments!

@Geordie69111 I'd be very interested to see the maths of your 35% of net salary claim given it's max 16% of gross salary for 2 children (reducing to 12% for higher earners). This would also be assuming you have no overnight care of your children (so none of the costs either). If you do provide care it would reduce the figure down further, plus any pension payments reduce it down further still. It's possible Collect and Pay is costing you a bit more if you haven't been reliably paying CMS, but with a consistent paying record you can get this taken off. Unless your net pay has lots of other reductions for some reason I'm genuinely struggling to see how it comes to 35% of net. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

@Geordie69111 do you owe a lot of CMS arrears? I guess this could account for it, in which case that means you must have had a period of underpaying.

Uniform costs can be minimal for state schools as they are optional and schools often stock spares deliberately to help low income families. So if either parent really can’t afford it then there is no need to spend.

But it frustrates me when solicitors recommend CMS figures in all divorces because it is only really fit for purpose for the lowest income families where both parents either work full time or don’t work. The amounts suggested don’t function when you have income disparities. Imo unpaid cms should automatically lead to inforcement action on the non paying parent’s assets.

My DH pays maintenance for my stepkids,
but also all extras are split.
The kids are at their mums more and I always thought maintenance was for that really, to cover the extra food and bills but everything else is split.