Trying to understand why his children are distancing themselves?

[crochetcatcrazy]

I guess I am looking for insight/thoughts/views please!

My DP and I have been together 6 years, he was married beforehand has 2 DD and an amicable split with his EW. When he separated from his EW he moved in with his parents half a mile from the family home and because he was amicable with his EW he was able to do his fair share of the parenting - i.e. popping in whilst she was at work to make dinner, pick them up run them round etc. When he left his DD were 13 and 17.

6 months after the initial separation we met, 6 months after we met it starting being more serious and his set up sounded really healthy but I wanted to check it wasn't too good to be true, I want to make sure he was actually separated as he was there a lot. He arranged for his EW, him and me to meet. This was all fine, she knew about me and reassured me it was all above board.

Fast-forward a few more months and we begin to live together, this is 20 mins from the family home. This didn't deter or change how much he was involved with his DDs, homework, pick ups, driving lessons etc. His DDs came to mine all the time, weekends, evenings, trips out, cooking, baking, hair etc. This works well for the first few years, when covid hit it was alot harder but we still did online things and walks together when allowed etc. I really feel he put as much into having an equal responsibility to their DD and I got on so well with them too.

However the last year it all seems to have shifted, last year I got cancer and had treatment and surgery at the same time they decided to sell the family home. His youngest - 18 was doing A Levels applying to uni etc and his eldest back living at home doing a part time job. This was the agreed stage to sell the family home split the proceeds (in her favour).

For the entire time he lived with his parents and with me - he continued to pay 100% of what he did when he lived there - to try and ensure continuity until his youngest was 18. This was tough on both of us essentially having 2 mortgages and bills to pay for and his ex was really lucky to continue working part time hours.

The house sells, his EW cannot afford anything she likes and they agree he will help her with a few extra ££ the split ends up at 70% to her 30% to him. She can more than afford a house outright but buys one with a VERY SMALL mortgage (like £40k). I think this is the catalyst for the issues as it caused the first rift between him and his EW regarding the money, her having to compromise, it has also then been backed up by both DDs saying poor mum this and that etc so they are aware of everything.

Whilst the house situation was midway through, his youngest is ignoring him, he calls, messages etc and after a month gets a long message essentially saying ''I don't like your personality, being around you is too stressful for me, please don't expect to hear or see much of me in the future'' he is heartbroken, we are now nearly through her first year at Uni and she has ignored him the entire time, wont see him and said hello on FaceTime on xmas day for 15 seconds.

His eldest is better but very distant, she got her first full time job and is swamped with the feeling of being busy for the first time. She cant see him in the evenings after work because she's too tired, she cant see him on Sundays because she has work the next day and she needs her Saturdays to chill - probably see's him every 6-8 weeks.

He is devastated by all of this and gets his girls are older and need him less and some of this is natural but he is just so down. I have tried everything I can think of but at a bit of a loss. He obviously had to be supportive to me whilst I was poorly and maybe this has caused an additional distance but I dont know really just trying to rationalise where possible.

thank you for reading xx

Couple of things:

Firstly, it is absolutely normal for young adults who have finished uni to spend their time working and building their own friendships and relationships.

This is a stage of life where many are living in shared houses, building their careers and very rarely seeing their parents.

I see my kids because I go to them, they have very little interest in coming to me.

Secondly, it doesn't sound like they really took in the full consequences of the separation. If their dad was constantly "popping" round then they won't have understood the financial sacrifices he was making and will have understood that they didn't live in his new home (your house).

So they have strong sense that exW's house is their home. They will feel upset that it has to be a smaller house (very few people want to move to a smaller house) and they will blame their dad because it is the separation that is driving this.

Have either of them ever actually spent overnights with him, either at his parents or at yours? Or has he always been "additional" parent rather than in sole charge for a few days?

@Octavia64 they spend a few years sleeping at mine on the weekends, Fridays and Saturday.

We did a couple of 2 week holidays and during Covid when allowed they stayed here for a month to give them some variety. As they are older the holidays dont really happen anymore and I get that is totally normal.

And I completely agree older children who are busy living their lives have less time for their parents.

Its just upsetting to see him so upset and feel like he did everything he should and he could and now they are unhappy with him and appear to blame him.

@Octavia64 Should also mention that we jointly including his DDs decorated a room for them to stay in, bought new furniture. This was done in hope they felt comfortable and happy staying here which for the first few years definitely happened and now I 100% understand why at 19 and 23 they dont want to stay over. But just wanted to mention as I feel we did as much as possible to create a loving environment that they felt they had been considered in not an inconvenience in.

They are old enough for your DP to have a frank discussion with them, explaining all of the things he has done to help their mum financially and offer them some stability.
He can express that he feels upset by DD telling him she doesn’t want much contact with him and that he would like to understand why - if it is finances and the change of home that is steering this then him being open about it should make her see that she’s being unfair. If she chooses to maintain her stance then unfortunately he has to accept that, and hopefully given time she will mature and realise that he only wanted what was best for her and eventually come back to him to rebuild the relationship.

From your part, just keep reassuring him that it’s normal for adult children to see their parents less so with his other DD he needs to try not to take it to heart as much.

Sorry to hear you had cancer. I hope you are well now 💐

They're adults now. They have their own thoughts, emotions and interpretations about their parents. Perhaps they don't feel that he did do all he could or should have, or perhaps they needed support in some other way that he didn't give them. Who knows? Also you've only been there the last 6 years, it could be something that's further back that's troubling them.

You write a lot about the physical set-up of things and a bit about what he did with the children as they were growing up. The message from his youngest, however, suggests that the issues relate to something else. "being around you is too stressful for me" Why? What is he doing? What is the 'personality' that's being referred to here? Is he of the 'banter' sort (makes comments he thinks are 'jokes' or says so if someone objects, but others find hurtful and unpleasant?) Is he generally critical towards them? From his daughter's comment, she thinks he creates a stressful atmosphere when she does see him. Is he willing to sit down with her and discuss what he is doing that she finds so upsetting? Can he make such an offer? Even if it's something that's innocuous (to him), it may be upsetting to her.

@Precipice you are right I have focused the writing about the set up.

We think but it hasnt been confirmed by his daughter that she is referring to when they have had (he assumed) healthy debates on things like politics, pronouns etc things she is very passionate and vocal about and stuff they might not necessarily agree on. I think he can accept some responsibility for how he voiced opinions (and frankly she has inherited the same level of 'voicing opinions' from him!) but he has NEVER been critical in front of me or that I am aware of about them at all.

He would take any opportunity to sit down and talk this through and I really think that those grown up to grown up conversations would help them both but she has completely shut the door. He would give his right arm for a chat with her.

I honestly never witnessed or felt he was horrible, deliberately caused stress, was critical of her or her sister. The only ever disagreed on those view mentioned about which I suppose I saw as a relatively normal right of passage type of thing.

thank you, he has tried and will not give up hope. I just worry about how much this is impacting him mentally xx

I have wondered about the stuff in the past, DP has had many discussions with his ExW and she is non the wiser to anything she can think of. BUT this doesnt mean his DD doesnt have something she is holding onto, she is just not replying, answering and has totally closed the door on him so finding out seems impossible at present

A lot of adults don't know how finances work during a separation/divorce/when the kids are grown. They just don't understand it, or they have silly views based on American dramas. The other way round, but we are dealing with my BIL's family (he is leaving my SIL) - grown adults - not having a clue about what he should be paying for at separation and what is a reasonable settlement. They think he should not be paying anything but of course that's not the law.

(Sorry, that's a digression) I just mean that if adults have trouble, what about kids? It's quite possible the girls feel he has somehow tricked their mother out of something, or perhaps that's how she's expressed it. Made it look like his fault? When everyone should have been clear with the kids about their expectations for what happens when they reach 18.

after a month gets a long message essentially saying ''I don't like your personality, being around you is too stressful for me, please don't expect to hear or see much of me in the future''

This is key. Something happened and your partner must know what it is. Acknowledging it, even if your partner doesn’t feel he’s in the wrong, and asking to talk about the specific thing, will be the start of the road back to a good relationship.

The oldest just sounds busy with a full time job and life.

I'm not so sure he would have done anything wrong. There's so much SM chat, mainly American about people going NC with their "toxic" parents. Some of the tales are harrowing and NC absolutely justified. But others you just think, what the hell? It's normal family life stuff, parents trying to do the best they can. When they grow up and have their own families, I wonder if they will see the light.

yes I agree the lack of understanding and maybe a bit of lack of understanding about expectation vs entailment is not helping the cause. He definitely feels that he couldnt have given any more and the years he paid 100% of what he did when he lived with them meant that between myself and him we paid 100% for two homes.... and whilst its not about the money I think he would like a little respect for having totally overstretched what was manageable. I don't believe he is looking for gratitude just a little bit more respect

I think he is worried that he has done something that has never been explained to told to him he has done wrong but there is only so much asking, or wanting to have a chat to clear the air but the lack of communication coming back means he just cannot seem to get an answer that he can then take responsibility for to enable them to move forward.

I totally get this.

I have what I would call a rubbish dad - not terrible or horrible. Forgetful of birthdays, didnt always pick me up the weekends he was supposed to and never paid a penny to my mum. This is pretty bad and if I didnt make much of an effort in my adult life with him I think that would be fair.

In my DPs case, he couldnt have tried harder to keep the relationships going, he paid over and above, he contacted them all the time, included them in all our weekend and holiday plans, they stayed here etc and whenever they needed anything they could be confident he would help them. He is not a shit Dad or a rubbish one at all. He is present and caring and loving and I feel he doesnt deserve to be ghosted by one of his children because they dont like his personality.

I know I love him and love is blind but he is a bloody good decent human one of life's good eggs, he is sarcastic and funny and thoughtful. But now he is broken by his 19 yr old DD by her words and cannot move past or fix it.

You say he is sarcastic. Is this something? Perhaps he made a sarcastic comment and she can't quite let it go? I know, at that age, I was quite sensitive to comments and had trouble sorting them out in my head. Maybe, he should really think about what he might have said which has caused this?

@Terrribletwos its entirely possible this could have happened. They are both equally sarcastic funny people, (In a nice way) and DP wants to understand but the door is firmly closed and he doesnt want to keep prodding too much and become annoying nor does he want to not try at all and she thinks he cant be bothered.

They are young adults.
It is totally usual that they see their parents about every eight weeks.
Keep communication supportive and positive. Their Dad has built a solid base and the daughters will likely still want to introduce significant others and have their children see lots of him in their future years.

My kids loved us arranging to meet them on their turf a few times a year. Plan to take them to a show or out to dinner, meet their friends etc.

A disagreement about pronouns is plenty enough to have a 19 yo flounce from their parents on a cloud of outrage atm.

So the crux is it probably is nothing to do with the family home but to do with your DP having what the DDs consider to be outdated and bigoted views that they disagree with and they have even said they don't want to be around someone with this "personality" type.

They may be his views but if he wants to retain a relationship ship with them maybe he should just keep them to himself when around them.

A family therapist (ddp therapy worth investigating) would be able to help him make sense of this and then make a skilful approach to her

I don’t see the need to make this about finances when it seems more apparent his daughter feels he’s been rude and dismissive of her points of view and she doesn’t like sharing her thoughts with him any more.

Like most teenagers, I went through a phase of having stridently ignorant and black-and-white perspectives on a variety of things. When I look back now I am grateful to my parents for having graciously expressed that they felt differently to me without feeling the need to “debate” my opinions into submission.

If he wants a relationship back with his daughter he needs to apologise for arguing with her (he’s the adult, she’s the hot-headed teen so it’s up to him to lead the tone) and say he would hate differences of opinion to get in the way of their relationship.

Since he & his youngest DD argued about pronouns and she's recently gone off to university - I wonder if now she's at uni she's identifying as non-binary or trans, and she feels her father won't be supportive of that so she's rejecting him first?

If it's the above, his ex would know probably know though. You said she can't think of the reason why so it's either not the above or the ex is sworn to secrecy. Whatever is going on, it seems to me that the ex is probably the only person who can help him solve this. Has he asked her if she could try and persuade the DD to explain her reasoning specifically to him?

Does DD2 still have any contact with you, OP? It doesn't sound like it.

The situation with the older child seems completely normal to me.

The younger one is struggling to get on with him, finds his opinions offensive maybe? He could write her a letter telling her how proud he is of the person she has become and that the door is always open, whenever she chooses to get back in touch.

Then he should sit back and wait.

A couple of things that the DD’s might think:

1. he left when they were 13 and 17, to go and live with his parents. It is very unusual (although not unheard of) for men to leave a marriage when there isn’t another woman on the scene or in the wings (not suggesting this was you) and this is for good reason - it just doesn’t make sense. He chose to exit the family home in which his teenage girls lived in. Why? What could make you leave your kids? I think they may in retrospect feel abandoned for no good reason (given that he’s amicable with ex wife). I have 2 teens and I cannot imagine leaving the family home to go and live with my mum. It doesn’t matter how many dinners or lifts he did or how much money he provided - he was not there when they went to sleep at night or when they woke up - it’s not stuff done/provided - it’s simply just being there. And teens need this more than we know. Perhaps they didn’t realise this at the time, but in retrospect. He just didn’t live with them anymore and I don’t understand why - even if there were marital problems - the eldest was in an A level course. And selling the home whilst she was doing A levels and transitioning to uni (which can be really stressful and traumatising - even when the teen seems ok) is off IMO. Teens often value the security of returning to their childhood home and parents just as things were, after the first term or whatever. Falling out of love with someone isn’t a good enough reason to leave your kids.

2. However lovely you are, and taking account of the fact that you had no part in splitting the marriage up, your presence is potentially seen as a barrier to reconciliation. My dd is 16 and her best friend’s parents have been split for 2 years. There is no suggestion they will reconcile and the dad has had girlfriends. And yet, the 16yo still talks to my dd about her parents potentially getting back together. As older adults, we know that this is very unlikely indeed - but it doesn’t seem that way to teens.

3. It seems their mum has possibly overspent on a house with her 70% of the proceeds of the marital home and that she is now in hot water financially. That will be stressful, she will be unhappy. So, yes, poor mum is a reasonable emotion for the DDs. Presumably she wanted rooms for them both and to live in a decent area? Rather than just having bought something too expensive for no reason?

4. It’s extremely unwise to have a pronoun/political debate with gen Z if there are any underlying resentments or problems (divorce). It can be extremely unwise at the best of times. They really do come from a different era to us.

I don’t know. These are just thoughts.