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SS behaviour advice

60 replies

Bannannaa · 10/09/2023 08:19

DP has 2DC age 7 and 9. I have teenage DC age 15 and 17. We have lived together a year.

The youngest SD7 tends to be a frustrated stroppy tantrummer sometimes when she doesn’t get her own way but that’s dealt with quite well by DP. SD is also receptive to me helping out with this and we have made good progress with managing angry feelings like breathing exercises and understanding emotions. She also sometimes does have to do a time out to calm down and she will then understand why. SD loves my older DC and vice versa and has a warm relationship with them. SD is very helpful and considerate and will listen if you give her an explanation why she can’t do something.

DP’s eldest DC 9 doesn’t listen to anything anyone says, almost ever. You can say the DC’s name loudly, or go over and physically tap him on the shoulder, make eye contact and DC will just carry on with whatever they will doing. Even if you explain why they need to stop, they often wont stop unless physically removed. Or often they will stop until you aren’t looking and start doing it again. At the same time they never do anything you ask either (normal every day things).

DP will end up shouting at him out of frustration after plenty of warnings. DP is pretty much constantly tearing his hair out. SS is NT and intelligent and has no hearing problems. DP is always teaching about consent and other peoples feelings so it’s not like he isn’t trying. I also find myself getting very frustrated and often I have to leave the room because I know I am getting worked up when SS isn’t listening to me or anyone else.

My DC avoid SS9 as they say he is intensely annoying, as he won’t stop doing things when you say ‘no’ or ‘stop’. This can be physical acts too like touching, grabbing, tickling or teasing or trying to get into DC rooms. Last week he made them all upset by thinking it was funny to pretend to be trying to throw a big spider at them even when everyone told him to stop doing it, he had to be physically carried away and DP shouted at him in the end. They don’t like spending time with him, which is sad but I never force it and actively have to prevent him annoying them.

SS also never does anything you ask so will need to be told over and over to put shoes on, move out of the way or basically any daily tasks take 100 times longer as he talks and faffs so much and pretty much everything is on his terms so we are always late everywhere and frazzled.

IMO this feels like subtle controlling behaviour. by not doing what you ask, they are controlling the narrative, you will end up doing the job instead as it’s taking so long. With not listening to people who don’t consent, it’s cos it’s his agenda and it’s something he wants and he doesn’t WANT to stop. When you ask him why, he will just say he didn’t want to stop touching someone, he was just playing so he didn’t, or he doesn’t want to help out, so he isn’t going to.

I know he’s just a child and I have to keep telling myself that. He doesn’t seem to have good socialisation skills so a lot of his grabby behaviour is his way of playing. He plays with animals in the same clumsy, rough way and pays no heed to their body language either if they try to desperately escape him. I feel bad for him he’s constantly getting told off, it’s a stressful environment at times we just don’t know how to get him to learn.

At the DC’s mothers house, the step father has put in an extremely strict routine with a lot of rules. But SS9 is the golden child and apparently ‘never told off’ (according to them both) which upsets and SD7 as she feels like she is always getting told off. Their mum spends time gently explaining things to SS9 and he kinds of gets a hair ruffle and a pat on the head and she speaks to DP about things as if SS9 is still 3yo and still learning boundaries. Even DP’s parents are beyond frustrated with SS9 not listening to them either.

Apparently he is not like this at school or his DM’s (according to her anyway) but this can’t just be about me, as he’s been like this with DP when we didn’t even live together it’s just not getting better and he’s the same with his grandparents.

I’ve told DP I am considering moving out as it’s not fair on my DC to live like this with another child who invades their privacy and disrespects their boundaries on such a frequent basis. DP is not like this at all so it’s not something DP can change about himself to set a good example. I feel he needs some intervention but where do you start?

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
MaPaSpa · 17/09/2023 09:27

i would try to ignore and displace. So the getting on his sister, you say it once please get off your sister and if he doesn’t pick him up off her and take sister and leave the room.

when going out, let him know in the morning, 2 hours before and 1 hour before. Remind him if he is not ready on time then you won’t go and stick to it. One adult stays home with him and no tv treat etc.

or if shoes and coat not on leave without them or pack them with you.

when he is harassing or being annoying everyone remove yourselves from the space. His behaviour is still getting attention with the added effect of winding everyone up which he enjoys. Let him see that no one has to put up with the behaviour and it has consequences. No more shouting, repeat yourself only 2/3 times and with the same monotone voice.

no negative attention, not everything revolving around his behaviour. Move around the behaviour rather than let him enjoy everyone being pissed off. But if he is touching or physically annoying others move them away.

we had a cousin like this and we just started to ignore it rather than giving him attention and he eventually grew out it. He’s still annoying but recognises the boundaries and has a hilarious personality otherwise

Bannannaa · 17/09/2023 09:56

Thanks I have told DP he needs to detach from feeling so aggrieved about this to a more boring grey rock stance. Also there are never any bloody consequences. I took over yesterday (DP agreed to watch me do it) and I gave them both a stern but calm and fair warning that we would be going out regardless of whether he had eaten or got dressed - if he went out hungry or in PJ’s then so be it. He did eat and get dressed. I actually did this with my DC as a consequence when they were this age and it always worked (I once got them both in the car to school in PJ’s with messy hair and they realised they would be mortified at school so didn’t take the piss again) and I know SS is self aware enough to be mortified by going out like that.

DP as a dad worries about perception of him so I think he feels a lot of pressure on him as a man to show he can manage, I don’t know why this is a thing but it is, so he stresses about them having eaten properly and I said they aren’t babies, being hungry as they didn’t eat their breakfast won’t hurt them now and again - its not ideal but you can only lead a horse to water you can’t make it drink. However he is always late and this causes him more stress!

Im backing off though as this is not my rodeo I have also sent him some links to read about techniques and consequences as I think this is the key he is missing.

OP posts:
Phineyj · 17/09/2023 11:35

The key issue here is your DP working on himself a bit - his knowledge, his reactions, his prejudices. He's the adult in this situation. He's lucky he's got you to point out at least that he could improve in this area.

I find it very hard to get my own DH to work on his parenting but he has improved over the years. He is (I am pretty sure) autistic himself so flexibility is not his greatest asset.

billy1966 · 17/09/2023 13:10

OP, you are getting lots of good advice here and you sound like a good woman.

However, I would really caution you regarding your own children and that they should be your primary concern.

They are not happy with this set up.

Bottom line is you have clearly done your best with them but are at huge risk of spoiling their childhood because of moving in with this man, however nice.

His children are not more important than your children.

Your life and energies have all had to now focus on these children when yours still need their mum.

Having this hugely stressful environment foisted on them through your relationship is simply not fair, no matter how nice this man is.

Your children need you and a peaceful home.

They deserve it.

I think your gut knows this and that is why you have rightly thought it is best if you live apart.

Your loyalties need to be to YOUR children.

Anything else is you putting yourself and this man and his childrens needs, ahead of your own children.

His children are not a project for you to fix whilst your own become stressed collateral damage in this environment.

IMO that is very wrong.

Apologies if it sounds harsh, but I think you need to listen carefully to your gut here.

Bannannaa · 17/09/2023 20:35

@billy1966
thanks. My DC are ok, DP has been making a huge effort to keep SS on a tight leash after we spoke problem is, this is just burning him out night and day. I appreciate his effort. But for everyone’s sake it’s prob best we dial it back. I can’t move back to mine for a little while yet until my short term let is up but in the meantime DP is on SS keeping him from annoying the other DC. DP also has actually been quite receptive to suggestions. He accepts he has zero consequences for his DC. And that has to change. I’m going to help him build a reward chart for the DC and a system for chores also, and going to help support more consequences in place. We took kids out today but the process to go out was hella painful.

SS was twirling around in his own private sensory world causing mayhem and even I ended up nearly blowing a fuse and DP was at his wits end. SS just seems to insert himself into chaos like a pro and then not be able to see how he’s making it worse until it’s too late and he’s in trouble. He was told to get ready, instead of this he decided to get involved with the dog who I was dealing with. I ended up wrestling with the dog putting their harness and lead on whilst SS barged in across me rough housing with the dog, his hands all getting in the way flipping the dog on its back to wrestle. I asked him to stop so many times, even moved the dog completely away, the dog got so excited and over stimulated they bit my hand, not badly but I just ended up standing up and throwing the stuff on the floor in defeat and walking away and DP had to sort it out. Later on, he threw the dogs kong as if it was a ball, bouncing it hard across the room splattering everyone and everything with the peanut butter that was inside. He’s been told so many times this isn’t a bloody ball and what it is for. We made him clean it up

OP posts:
Alwaysthebaddie · 19/09/2023 12:24

Bannannaa · 10/09/2023 08:53

He was 4 when they split, mum left. She also had a big gap of choosing to not see them much at all for at least a year which I think will have had a big impact on them. They have 60/40 (most time with us). She remarried very quickly recently.

SS9 prefers mum to dad and has no problem saying it. SD prefers dad and often resists going to mums, screaming and crying and apparently doesn’t settle there and constantly asks to come back to us.

Apparently he is not like this at school with his teachers at all hence no assessments have happened. However he does seem to have some socialisation problems with understanding other peoples feelings, around friends he is a fun extroverted risk taker so very popular at school with other kids and easily led into mischief. He gets great school reports. I can’t push for assessments it’s not my place but I can advise DP. I have told DP maybe he should get his hearing checked again

This feels a lot like masking/autism and-or ADHD

organictomatoes · 19/09/2023 12:32

Bannannaa · 11/09/2023 14:22

I watched him this weekend without him knowing and I do think he is possibly sensory seeking. He cannot stand or sit still, whilst waiting for a public toilet he was clicking his tongue repeatedly whilst climbing mental railings and kind of entwining himself all over the rails, kind of draped over them. He then made this clicking noise in the car for a full 20 mins. It’s fairly (extremely) irritating. Also he’s never prepared to walk/move when you ask as he’s found something to touch or climb which takes up all his interest. Usually instead of putting his shoes on he will have found something else to fiddle with. It’s caused DP stress that a 9yo cannot put their own shoes on when asked or fasten a car seatbelt. DP isn’t a shouty person in life at all, I’ve never heard him get angry at anything else so I do think it’s sad that SS gets yelled at so much like this and I know DP doesn’t want to.

He also likes to lie his full body weight on people a lot. He has to be touching things. He will squeak a dog toy loudly repeatedly until you beg him to stop. He’s very articulate but I don’t think he has a good imagination. He kind of doesn’t really play much with toys in an imaginative way. He also eats quite oddly picking tiny bits of his food it can take over an hour to finish a meal.

Its possible he doesn’t have impulse control I did try to talk to him about it I said if you have an idea to do something, you need to ask yourself ‘should I do this’ but he either can’t or won’t - if you ask him why he shouldn’t do something he will tell you why, but he’s still done it anyway.

I think as he’s clearly very high functioning in many other ways this is going to be something that is missed unless his parents take some initiative. DP is not currently open to this idea that it’s sensory seeking.

My DC are just exasperated with how irritating it is for them, they want to be able to walk in and out of their rooms without locks on their doors! I did get him to stop opening the bathroom door from the outside cos this was an issue for a while. He’s just so overbearing and in their faces, DP and I having to constantly be watching whether he is annoying them all the time.

I’m not adverse to helping DP with a special needs child at all but as it’s unlikely anyone is going to take action to get an assessment and this isn’t going to change any time soon I am going to talk to DP about moving out for my DC sake. Luckily I can go back to my own house, it would just mean I have to sort out the practicalities (short term let). My DC know this isn’t something that’s anyone’s fault or SS, they don’t shout at him or anything but they didn’t ask for this life and I feel like it’s unfair so perhaps DP and I can reassess living together again in the future.

Might be a coincidence but I have a child with ASD who does most of what you’ve described here. Takes a few years to get NHS diagnosis but once they’re on the pathway usual advice is to parent as if they have it. Mine benefits from:

never too much structure

structured rewards like stars for certain good behaviours. Stars can = pennies each. Save up for chosen thing. Good for other kids too

avoid shaming them - makes everything worse and they start to believe they can never be good so no point trying

use special interests if any as a jumping off point to address lagging skills

Bannannaa · 19/09/2023 15:52

I’m not sure about autism. I have friends and family who are autistic and SS on paper maybe sounds on the spectrum but in person it’s more like (now quite obvious) ADHD. But if it’s HF it might be more complex. My family members both have a very distinct way of speaking and an intonation and speech pattern that is very different to SS but that’s my lay persons experience! SS doesn’t seem to have an issue with understanding humour, jokes or underlying themes of conversations, and he is good at having conversations when he is concentrating (he just often isn’t focused). He is good at communicating when it suits him but isn’t paying attention to other people a lot of the time so he misses cues

I have a child with ADHD but they have more issues with verbal outbursts and anxiety than SS does with the fidgeting and sensory elements. My DC does chews things incessantly and had a lot of difficulty with boundaries but has really come a long way. So it’s not like I have no experience myself but also didn’t see this with SS for some time until I was living with him and he is getting older as lot was put down to being young and emotionally immature. As my DC had completely different presentation to SS then ASD is also possible

MIL has actually been very useful in talking with DP so there is some hope!

OP posts:
waterrat · 21/09/2023 13:04

xx

Alwaysthebaddie · 03/10/2023 21:33

you probably know about PDA and ODD and that these can co-occur with ADHD and ASD.
I found learning about them really useful for handling my 2 SS and my own son.

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